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Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

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  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    The taking only the parts you like and leaving whatever you don't like approach is sometimes known as Cafeteria Christianity over here.
    Which is akin to "having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof".
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      He never said anything specific about incest, pedophilia or necrophilia either so I guess that means in your book He thought that they are okay
      No, that's not what I said, what I said is that you don't know either way, because Jesus himself never mentioned it. What I said is that Buttigieg can disagree with you about the bible and still be a christian who believes in Jesus. You don't have to like it.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
        No, that's not what I said, what I said is that you don't know either way, because Jesus himself never mentioned it. What I said is that Buttigieg can disagree with you about the bible and still be a christian who believes in Jesus. You don't have to like it.
        You don't know squat about what Buttigieg really believes. Or do you have some special gift that allows you to read the minds of homosexual men?
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          You don't know squat about what Buttigieg really believes. Or do you have some special gift that allows you to read the minds of homosexual men?
          Didn't say I did. Learn to read and comprehend there, CP.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
            Didn't say I did.
            Then stop pretending that you know what he's thinking or believing.

            Learn to read and comprehend there, CP.
            Ah, your standard idiot response when you've been caught again saying something really stupid.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              So what? In the process, he's making a lot better choices for SCOTUS, federal judges, religious freedom than Hillary ever would have..... We didn't hire him to be preacher-in-chief.
              Trump is making choices that pander to the prejudices of the Evangelicals like you that put him there. And the “religious freedom” of which you speak is 'Doublespeak' for denying equal civil rights to gays and pro-choice rights for women. Orwell would be proud of you.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Which is akin to "having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof".
                This risks a can of worms - but why exactly?

                Here is what the Second Vatican Council, so for Catholics, said about the inerrancy of Scripture: "Since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation."[10] It added: "Since God speaks in Sacred Scripture through men in human fashion, the interpreter of Sacred Scripture, in order to see clearly what God wanted to communicate to us, should carefully investigate what meaning the sacred writers really intended, and what God wanted to manifest by means of their words."

                However, it is by no means certain that this is true - that is itself an act of faith. People are fallible. The form of godliness, which appears to stem from love at heart, does appear to come up against difficulties when it comes to persecuting people for their love of each other. I'm sure that the power thereof is felt in that love, more so than in the persecution.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  The taking only the parts you like and leaving whatever you don't like approach is sometimes known as Cafeteria Christianity over here.
                  You mean taking the parts you like about justifying slave ownership, as was done for generations, or perpetuating the Jim Crow Laws, or denying women the right of emancipation…etc. etc.

                  The bible has long been used to justify the social values of the day. And, in the West these values now include full civil rights for homosexuals.

                  Historically, Christians have always viewed the biblical text through the lens of their own culture and now the majority of Christian churches view this as including gay rights, as per the Episcopal Church. This is why it marries gay couples and ordains and consecrates gay priests and bishops. The Evangelical still utilize scripture to justify homophobia but this will inevitably change in time just as justifying slavery did.
                  “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                    You mean taking the parts you like about justifying slave ownership, as was done for generations, or perpetuating the Jim Crow Laws, or denying women the right of emancipation…etc. etc.
                    To the extent that it was done, yes, that would meet the criteria for "cafeteria Christianity."

                    The bible has long been misused to justify the social values of the day. And, in the West these values now include full civil rights for homosexuals.
                    fify.

                    Historically, Churches have always viewed the biblical text through the lens of their own culture and now the majority of Christian churches view this as including gay rights, as per the Episcopal Church. This is why it marries gay couples and ordains and consecrates gay priests and bishops.
                    fify. Gay rights are upheld by Christians - their legitimate rights don't extend to the point of having Christians endorse their choices as acceptable to God.

                    The Evangelical still utilize scripture to justify homophobia but this will inevitably change in time just as justifying slavery did.
                    Perhaps "homophobia" is not quite the word you mean. Unless by "evangelical" you don't mean Christian.
                    Last edited by tabibito; 07-01-2019, 04:24 AM.
                    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                    .
                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                    Scripture before Tradition:
                    but that won't prevent others from
                    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                    of the right to call yourself Christian.

                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                      To the extent that it was done, yes, that would meet the criteria for "cafeteria Christianity."
                      It was done and continues to be done. Social mores have always come first (e.g. slavery, Jim Crow Laws, denying women’s emancipation etc.) and selected scripture can be found to justify it. E.g. re slavery, Colossians 3:22, “Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh, not serving to the eye, as pleasing men, but in simplicity of heart, fearing God.”

                      Gay rights are upheld by Christians - their legitimate rights don't extend to the point of having Christians endorse their choices as acceptable to God
                      Except that the majority of Christians in the West do just that nowadays, including Buttigieg’s denomination. He was married in his church to his male partner.

                      Perhaps "homophobia" is not quite the word you mean. Unless by "evangelical" you don't mean Christian.
                      I mean by Evangelical the brand of Christianity that notoriously rationalized slave ownership and the Jim Crow Laws via scripture, and justify their homophobia, when other Christians have seen fit to recognize full equal rights for homosexuals. But they will, it’s inevitable. Just as they were dragged reluctantly into ending the Jim Crow Laws et al.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        It was done and continues to be done. Social mores have always come first (e.g. slavery, Jim Crow Laws, denying women’s emancipation etc.) and selected scripture can be found to justify it. E.g. re slavery, Colossians 3:22, “Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh, not serving to the eye, as pleasing men, but in simplicity of heart, fearing God.”



                        Except that the majority of Christians in the West do just that nowadays, including Buttigieg’s denomination. He was married in his church to his male partner.
                        If social mores direct a Christian's course, he is not following the course set by Christ.

                        I mean by Evangelical the brand of Christianity that notoriously rationalized slave ownership and the Jim Crow Laws via scripture,
                        The brand of Christianity that opposed slavery is the same that opposed the tendency to follow societal norms and pushed for emancipation. The movement arose first among Christians. Those points, you thoroughly miss.

                        and justify their homophobia, when other Christians have seen fit to recognize full equal rights for homosexuals. But they will, it’s inevitable. Just as they were dragged reluctantly into ending the Jim Crow Laws et al.
                        According to some, anyone who opposes being drawn into endorsement of homosexual relationships is homophobic. That speaks more to the critics prejudice and bigotry than it will ever say about the people being criticised. These people that you term "other Christians" see people playing with a hand-grenade and encourage them to pull the pin. Christians won't do that - they didn't encourage people to continue being slave owners, they didn't encourage promiscuity, prostitution, wanton killing - all of which have been accepted by churches at various times in history (even to the point of churches in some places running brothels.) And Christians consistently have opposed that kind of acceptance, even if necessary at risk to their lives and freedoms. In Hong Kong right now, (as I have previously made mention of) Christians are defying the churches, to protect demonstrators protesting a change of law that would see political undesirables extradited to Mainland China.
                        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                        .
                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                        Scripture before Tradition:
                        but that won't prevent others from
                        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                        of the right to call yourself Christian.

                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                        Comment


                        • Meanwhile, Buttigieg continues to grapple with politics at home...

                          More Calls for Mayor Pete’s Resignation


                          South Bend mayor Pete Buttigieg (D.) faces growing calls for his resignation in the wake of a white police officer shooting and killing a black man.

                          The incident occurred in the early morning of June 14 and snapped racial tensions that have been tightening since Buttigieg demoted Darryl Boykins, the city's first black police chief, in 2012. Buttigieg held a town hall on June 23, but South Bend's black community reacted with fury. They pointed to racial conflicts within the SBPD as well as the department's fraught relationship with the black community, demanding swift change.

                          Six shootings occurred the weekend of his town hall. In one instance, a witness reported that the shooter was aiming specifically at police. A number of South Bend officials who served under Buttigieg as well as local civil rights activists are now calling for the mayor’s resignation.

                          "To start with trying to heal, the mayor just needs to resign," activist and pastor Mario Sims told the Washington Free Beacon, adding that Buttigieg should demote Police Chief Scott Ruszkowski to cleanse the department of bad blood.

                          Sims also added that he believes Buttigieg is racially "tone-deaf" and should consider retiring from politics until he has "spent some time evaluating this."

                          "I understand political ambition, I understand that," Sims said. "But you're playing games with the lives of the people here, and innocent police officers."


                          And this...

                          The situation puts Buttigieg in a tough position, even as he faces a wide field in the Democratic presidential primaries—in addition to trying to unseat President Trump, he fights a two-front war at home: "He's managed to anger the black community and the police department," Sims told the Free Beacon. "Now how do you do that?"
                          Last edited by Cow Poke; 07-01-2019, 10:15 AM.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                            The ancient world was generally "comfortable" with homosexuality, pederasty, abortion, infanticide, the gruesome Roman circus, and confessing that Caesar was Lord. The early church welcomed everyone, but didn't waver in it's position on these issues. Rather, it suffered persecution for it's unwavering views, and eventually it won people over for it's stand on the truth.
                            not always, I am reminded of Christ's letters to the churches in Revelation. When the church did get too lax and permissive, Christ had some harsh words for them.
                            Last edited by Sparko; 07-01-2019, 12:17 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              ...And the “religious freedom” of which you speak is 'Doublespeak' for denying equal civil rights to gays and pro-choice rights for women. Orwell would be proud of you.
                              What a drama queen. Calling the willful termination of innocent lives "pro-choice rights" is exactly the kind of crap about which Orwell wrote.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                No, that's not what I said, what I said is that you don't know either way, because Jesus himself never mentioned it. What I said is that Buttigieg can disagree with you about the bible and still be a christian who believes in Jesus. You don't have to like it.
                                so you think we can only go by what Jesus said and nobody else in the bible on stuff?

                                Comment

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