Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

[Cow Poke]

You’re confused. The same Evangelical Christians that refuse to recognize LGBT equal civil rights on biblical grounds are the same ones that endorsed slave ownership and retained the Jim Crow Laws until forced by the Civil Rights Act to abolish them.

So, how old do you think we are now? Tassman, you are serially saying really stupid stuff. Just stop.

[Cow Poke]

I said nothing about Buttigieg’s “ability to lead”. Merely that your comment: “Calls for Mayor Pete’s Resignation” was premature and misdirected, given that he has raised “big bucks” in a very short time.

So what - he raised big bucks, goofus! Other than being homosexual, what are his qualifications for running the country?

[Sparko]

You’re confused. The same Evangelical Christians that refuse to recognize LGBT equal civil rights on biblical grounds are the same ones that endorsed slave ownership and retained the Jim Crow Laws until forced by the Civil Rights Act to abolish them.

wow, how many of us do you think were alive in the 1800's Tassy? Same ones huh?

[tabibito]

Christian advocates do in fact argue against LGBT’s having FULL civil rights, e.g. the right to marry their person of choice.

And what else do these "Christians" of yours advocate?



See above.

Yes, Christians played a role. ALL Hong Kong’s religions did. None wanted to be subject to secular government demands.

And thus my points about the matter are carefully avoided. Too carefully to make any claim that they were missed believable.

[Tassman]

False equivalence. No Christian advocates the right to prevent LGBTQ from having equal civil rights with other groups and sub-groups.

Christian advocates do in fact argue against LGBT’s having FULL civil rights, e.g. the right to marry their person of choice.

People advocating slavery did act to prevent certain sub-groups from having equal rights.

See above.

False. Christians acted to prevent the police from dispersing the protesters. In doing so, they increased the potential for their own extradition in the event of the extradition law being passed. And still you miss the point that these Christians are, in supporting social justice, defying the churches that want them to yield to secular government demands.

Yes, Christians played a role. ALL Hong Kong’s religions did. None wanted to be subject to secular government demands.

[Tassman]

You do realize that it is in large part to "Evangelical Christianity" and Christianity in general that slavery has been eradicated in the parts of the world where it has influence?

No doubt “there were good people on both sides”.

What’s not arguable is that it was Southern Baptists that resisted the abolition of slavery and were largely responsible for the Jim Crow Laws until forced by the Civil Rights Act to abolish them.

[tabibito]

You do realize that it is in large part to "Evangelical Christianity" and Christianity in general that slavery has been eradicated in the parts of the world where it has influence?

He knows it. Acknowledging it doesn't meet with the agenda.

[rogue06]

You’re confused. The same Evangelical Christians that refuse to recognize LGBT equal civil rights on biblical grounds are the same ones that endorsed slave ownership and retained the Jim Crow Laws until forced by the Civil Rights Act to abolish them.

You do realize that it is in large part to "Evangelical Christianity" and Christianity in general that slavery has been eradicated in the parts of the world where it has influence?

[tabibito]

Just as the Southern Baptist Evangelicals acted for their own right not to advocate for the abolition of slavery and right to maintain racial discrimination until forced by the Civil Rights Act to recognize equal civil rights for ALL citizens…including blacks and LGBT persons.

False equivalence. No Christian advocates the right to prevent LGBTQ from having equal civil rights with other groups and sub-groups. People advocating slavery did act to prevent certain sub-groups from having equal rights.

ALL the protesters comprising over 1 million citizens, were under threat from the police enforcing the laws of the Chinese governing body threatening Hong Kong residents with the loss of independence as a self-governing state.

False. Christians acted to prevent the police from dispersing the protesters. In doing so, they increased the potential for their own extradition in the event of the extradition law being passed. And still you miss the point that these Christians are, in supporting social justice, defying the churches that want them to yield to secular government demands.

[Tassman]

Yes, because raising big bucks in politics is a sure-fire indicator of one's ability to lead.

I said nothing about Buttigieg’s “ability to lead”. Merely that your comment: “Calls for Mayor Pete’s Resignation” was premature and misdirected, given that he has raised “big bucks” in a very short time.

[Tassman]

That may be - Christians are neither advocating that civil rights be withheld from, nor acting against civil rights for the LGBT community. Christians are advocating and acting for their own right to not advocate and not participate in LGBT agendas.

Just as the Southern Baptist Evangelicals acted for their own right not to advocate for the abolition of slavery and right to maintain racial discrimination until forced by the Civil Rights Act to recognize equal civil rights for ALL citizens…including blacks and LGBT persons.

The religious mix of the protesters is as you say. To repeat what I said earlier: Christians acted deliberately and specifically, and in defiance of a number of churches, to protect people who were under threat from the police.

ALL the protesters comprising over 1 million citizens, were under threat from the police enforcing the laws of the Chinese governing body threatening Hong Kong residents with the loss of independence as a self-governing state.

[tabibito]

You’re confused. The same Evangelical Christians that refuse to recognize LGBT equal civil rights on biblical grounds are the same ones that endorsed slave ownership and retained the Jim Crow Laws until forced by the Civil Rights Act to abolish them.

That may be - Christians are neither advocating that civil rights be withheld from, nor acting against civil rights for the LGBT community. Christians are advocating and acting for their own right to not advocate and not participate in LGBT agendas.

Not so. Over 1 million protesters were in the streets of Hong Kong out of a population of 7 million. In short ALL religious groups were in the streets in defiance of the governing bodies.

The religious mix of the protesters is as you say. To repeat what I said earlier: Christians acted deliberately and specifically, and in defiance of a number of churches, to protect people who were under threat from the police. Given that the protests are peaceful, the Christians are acting properly. The churches in question are doing what you advocate - submitting to political pressure.

How you got to understand that I was saying that the protesters were Christians acting in defiance of the governing bodies, particularly when I stipulated "governing bodies of the churches" (as well as secular) is beyond me.

[oxmixmudd]

Jim, I expressed an OPINION, based on interactions I have with actual black people I know in my community. It's a two-part situation. Yes, they reject same-sex relationships because, apparently, they tend to be more conservative in matters related to biblical issues - something on which you seem to be going soft. In addition, they don't see it as the same struggle, because they don't have the option of "coming out" or "staying in the closet". They are automatically black when people look at them, and are treated accordingly.

Horatio

Why so defensive? The research indicates ehat it indicates. And it is the opposite of your opinion.

Jum

[Tassman]

Christians were, I will admit, somewhat slow on the uptake regarding this issue. However, Christians did support, and still do, the right to self determination for gays once the problem was identified. Equal - not superior - rights for outsiders doesn't extend as far as allowing those outsiders to dictate what people not of their group are permitted to believe and advocate.

Actions which even you acknowledge have noting to do with Christianity.

Completely false assessment on your part. The same organisations that formerly advocated slavery as compatible with Christianity now advocate homosexual unions as compatible with Christianity. The churches are playing the same old game, and Christians are resisting the churches in the same old way.

You’re confused. The same Evangelical Christians that refuse to recognize LGBT equal civil rights on biblical grounds are the same ones that endorsed slave ownership and retained the Jim Crow Laws until forced by the Civil Rights Act to abolish them.

And yet, that insignificant minority (3%) acts to protect the majority. True - they do so legally, but in defiance of the governing bodies, church and secular both. Non-Christians in Hong Kong have acknowledged their contribution - so your assessment is based on nothing.

Not so. Over 1 million protesters were in the streets of Hong Kong out of a population of 7 million. In short ALL religious groups were in the streets in defiance of the governing bodies.

[Cow Poke]

No, if you read the research (or just the summaries given) the support that does exist in the black community is related directly to the civil rights aspect, the inverse of your assumption. That is, they seem to be more sensitive to the discrimination part as it relates to individuals, but less willing to accept it as an equivalent sexuality and tending to reject gay marriage more.

Jim

Jim, I expressed an OPINION, based on interactions I have with actual black people I know in my community. It's a two-part situation. Yes, they reject same-sex relationships because, apparently, they tend to be more conservative in matters related to biblical issues - something on which you seem to be going soft. In addition, they don't see it as the same struggle, because they don't have the option of "coming out" or "staying in the closet". They are automatically black when people look at them, and are treated accordingly.

Horatio