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Christians slaughtered in Nigeria

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  • #31
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I was addressing your dismissal of the content of the article. Nothing more. Which was wrong simply put. His suggestions for how we can deal with the issue as Christians were good. Christians do not have the option of a hostile, fearful, revengful response to what is happening. You start buying into the idea that is possible as Christians and you are just as guilty of McLaren of promoting a false gospel.

    As for your other degrading inferences about my lack of concern over Christian persecution - to not wish for revenge is the only viable Christian response and in implying otherwise you judge yourself. We are to pray for every Muslim who has participated in the slaughter of Christians for their salvation. We are to pray for the world that somehow thinks it is ok to kill Christians that they might find Christ. It is not an indicator of a lack of concern. To show love in the face evil is no sign of weakness. It is the power and the work of the Holy Spirit. And we are to pray for ourselves that we have the strength and courage not to give in to hate or bitterness that the world might see Christ in us.

    Where the Christian church has resorted to the ways of the world, to violence, to hatred, it has hindered the progress of the Gospel. God's way is not the way of the sword. That is not the Kingdom of God in this world. That is what the world does. If you love only your friends, what does that profit you. Even the Gentiles do that.
    You are totally missing the point of this thread, as is Chuck. The point is to show the bias of the MSM against Christians.

    I never said that I disagreed with McLaren on the points he made about resorting to violence, hatred or bitterness in light of persecution. But his gospel is wrong, and I am free to take everything he says with that in mind. I find it very interesting that you jump to defending Chuck and his article, but you still make no comment regarding the lack of reporting in the MSM about the persecution of believers.

    Please point out to me where I am doing any of this:

    When we encourage other Christians to live like the world, when we make excuses to hate and to abandon the teachings of Christ and again embrace hatred, bitterness, and revenge, we crucify Him again.

    Jim
    Last edited by mossrose; 03-18-2019, 04:59 PM.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

    Comment


    • #32
      This just in, from China.

      The ruling party in China is attempting to increase their control over religious freedom in the country, most recently by taking a crackdown on Christianity.

      In the countryís province of Henan, which has one of the largest Christian populations in China, churches were raided and demolished, Bibles and holy books were confiscated and new laws were established to monitor religious activities.

      One Christian named Guo described an incident in which Chinese officials interrupted a church meeting and told everyone to leave. They then ordered church leaders to remove a cross, a Bible verse and a painting of the Last Supper off the wall. Guo didnít give his full name out of fear of government repercussions.

      Read more at https://www.beliefnet.com/columnists...tlmYq16SZuU.99


      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

      Comment


      • #33
        I don't think it's bias against Christians so much as it is bias against countries that (1) most viewers don't really know much about, and (2) countries where this sort of thing isn't that uncommon. Attacks like this are extremely rare in New Zealand, and it's a country people in the US actually probably know something about (unlike Nigeria, where most people's knowledge of it is likely "I think it's a country somewhere in Africa").

        China is a bit different in that it's a country people actually do know about, but again it's a case of commonality. China has for a long time been fairly suppressive of religion in general (not just Christianity) so one more example is nothing new.

        If this had happened against a Church in New Zealand, I expect it would have gotten about as much airplay. Again, it's a matter the amount of attention that generally gets paid to the country and especially how "expected" the event was.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by mossrose View Post
          This just in, from China.

          The ruling party in China is attempting to increase their control over religious freedom in the country, most recently by taking a crackdown on Christianity.

          In the countryís province of Henan, which has one of the largest Christian populations in China, churches were raided and demolished, Bibles and holy books were confiscated and new laws were established to monitor religious activities.

          One Christian named Guo described an incident in which Chinese officials interrupted a church meeting and told everyone to leave. They then ordered church leaders to remove a cross, a Bible verse and a painting of the Last Supper off the wall. Guo didnít give his full name out of fear of government repercussions.

          Read more at https://www.beliefnet.com/columnists...tlmYq16SZuU.99
          It is pretty bad in china. And it is odd we dont hear more about what is going on there in terms of religious persecution. What I don't know is how much similar activites impact other religions in China. But china and russia, communist countries in general, are especially bad in their treatment of christians.

          Jim
          He will reply, ĎTruly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

          "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by mossrose View Post
            You are totally missing the point of this thread, as is Chuck. The point is to show the bias of the MSM against Christians.

            I never said that I disagreed with McLaren on the points he made about resorting to violence, hatred or bitterness in light of persecution. But his gospel is wrong, and I am free to take everything he says with that in mind. I find it very interesting that you jump to defending Chuck and his article, but you still make no comment regarding the lack of reporting in the MSM about the persecution of believers.

            Please point out to me where I am doing any of this:
            I waited to reply to this to get my thoughts together.

            First, one element of this thread is that you are using it as a litmus test of some sort, perhaps even as to who is or is not a 'true' Christian. You have asked me how many times now why I have not made a comment about the 'MSM's lack of reporting' - as if to not comment on that somehow means I don't care about what it happening to other Christians in the world in terms of persecution? How dare you. You have no clue my involvement over the years in organizations dealing with this very area of unreached people groups and persecution. And while I can't speak of it here - as I said before - your arrogance only judges yourself.

            Secondarily, while the persecution of Christians IS an issue, and the tendency for the reporting of such issues to be unbalanced IS a problem, it is horribly, horribly inappropriate to start such a thread in response to the massacre of 50 Muslims by a white nationalist in an otherwise civilized and stable nation*. Of course that is going to make national news. Just like the massacre of people in a black church in Charleston did. They WERE Christians, and the person killing them was ... well a white supremacist with extreme racial hatred. And it made the national news and international news no less so than this event, even though less people were killed. So it is no slight against Christians for it to make national news when it is Muslims that are the ones being slaughtered, even though in other parts of the world other Muslims are killing Christians. That is not who THESE Muslims were. In fact, many of them were in New Zealand escaping the very same sort of Muslims committing the atrocities you are highlighting. So to act like this specific event somehow highlights the unbalanced reporting of the persecutions of Christians just misses the mark and - as I said - is just really, really inappropriate. We should be praying for them - for the horror of this event - for the impact of this on those parents who lost children, those children who lost parents. They deserve our prayers just as much as the Christians suffering in Nigeria, or China, or Russia, or North Korean and so on. Further, think about the fact that this being a white nationalist he may well claim to be a Christian and most certainly this event will be seen by many Muslims as somehow representing Christian attitudes towards Muslims. Pray about the impact of that on this increasingly fractured world.

            Jim

            *need I point out this thread followed the thread on the New Zealand massacre by 1 hour and 1 minute.
            He will reply, ĎTruly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

            "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              I waited to reply to this to get my thoughts together.

              First, one element of this thread is that you are using it as a litmus test of some sort, perhaps even as to who is or is not a 'true' Christian.
              Thanks for telling me the operation of my own mind. This thread is in no sense a "litmus test" of whether anybody is a believer or not. It is a statement on the fact that the MSM ignores the persecution of Christians.


              You have asked me how many times now why I have not made a comment about the 'MSM's lack of reporting' - as if to not comment on that somehow means I don't care about what it happening to other Christians in the world in terms of persecution? How dare you. You have no clue my involvement over the years in organizations dealing with this very area of unreached people groups and persecution. And while I can't speak of it here - as I said before - your arrogance only judges yourself.
              You know, you're a lot like some other people in my life who, when I only want a simple yes or no to a question start to rave about my reasoning for asking a question. I never said anything about your involvement with anything, I just wanted to know if you agree that the slaughter of these believers is equally as horrific as the murder of the Muslims in NZ. And that the MSM should cover these events with the same zeal.


              Secondarily, while the persecution of Christians IS an issue, and the tendency for the reporting of such issues to be unbalanced IS a problem,
              Thank you! Couldn't you have just said that sooner?


              it is horribly, horribly inappropriate to start such a thread in response to the massacre of 50 Muslims by a white nationalist in an otherwise civilized and stable nation*. Of course that is going to make national news. Just like the massacre of people in a black church in Charleston did. They WERE Christians, and the person killing them was ... well a white supremacist with extreme racial hatred. And it made the national news and international news no less so than this event, even though less people were killed. So it is no slight against Christians for it to make national news when it is Muslims that are the ones being slaughtered, even though in other parts of the world other Muslims are killing Christians.
              It is not your business to tell me whether something I post is appropriate or not. That is the whole purpose of this thread. To show that terrible things are happening to Christians EVERY day and nobody hears about it. How dare you tell me that I shouldn't have started this thread when I did!


              That is not who THESE Muslims were. In fact, many of them were in New Zealand escaping the very same sort of Muslims committing the atrocities you are highlighting. So to act like this specific event somehow highlights the unbalanced reporting of the persecutions of Christians just misses the mark and - as I said - is just really, really inappropriate. We should be praying for them - for the horror of this event - for the impact of this on those parents who lost children, those children who lost parents. They deserve our prayers just as much as the Christians suffering in Nigeria, or China, or Russia, or North Korean and so on. Further, think about the fact that this being a white nationalist he may well claim to be a Christian and most certainly this event will be seen by many Muslims as somehow representing Christian attitudes towards Muslims. Pray about the impact of that on this increasingly fractured world.

              Jim
              You have no right to lecture me on my prayer habits, any more than you say I don't know your involvement with organizations dealing with "unreached people", etc.

              And if this Muslim killer is a "Christian", and I would certainly use that term VERY loosely, I am sure the media will make no end of pointing that out.

              *need I point out this thread followed the thread on the New Zealand massacre by 1 hour and 1 minute.
              I am not a child to be scolded. I knew exactly what I was doing.

              By the by, you never did point out to me where I was doing this, so I'll ask you again:

              Originally posted by Jim
              When we encourage other Christians to live like the world, when we make excuses to hate and to abandon the teachings of Christ and again embrace hatred, bitterness, and revenge, we crucify Him again.
              If you can't answer that simple question, then don't bother replying again.


              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

              Comment


              • #37
                Over 130 Killed in Nigeria in One Attack Ė Mostly Christians. What do You Mean You Didnít Know? 18 MARCH 2019

                Mass killing is as old as human beings. Reporting-bias is just as old. As is the lesson that bais teaches. Take New Zealand. Youíll be hard pressed to find someone who hasnít heard about how many died. But they do not know that at least 130 people were killed in an attack in Nigeria a few weeks ago.

                https://www.reuters.com/article/us-n...-idUSKCN1Q81MQ

                Isnít 130 a much bigger number than 50? It is.

                Why Didnít You Know?

                The attacks appear meant to wipe out certain communities. Primarily Christian. Places where some Muslims were living peaceably side-by-side. But not enough of them.

                Itís just Christians, right? No wall coverage on American cable news. World Leaders didnít crawl out of the woodwork to blame President Trump. Because that wouldnít make any sense.

                But three times as many people of color died in February, in Nigeria, mostly Christians. Not by a white Communist-loving progressive (labeled by the media and others as right-wing). African Muslims are mostly to blame for his cleansing (in one instance an entire village was razed).


                There's more here:

                https://granitegrok.com/blog/2019/03...you-didnt-know


                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                  I don't think it's bias against Christians so much as it is bias against countries that (1) most viewers don't really know much about, and (2) countries where this sort of thing isn't that uncommon. Attacks like this are extremely rare in New Zealand, and it's a country people in the US actually probably know something about (unlike Nigeria, where most people's knowledge of it is likely "I think it's a country somewhere in Africa").
                  Yes, I think this is spot on. African countries are generally one big unknown for most westerners, maybe excepting Egypt and South Africa. Joseph Kony's long-lasting guerilla campaign waged with forced child soldiers should by all account have captured more attention than it did, but it took the Invisible Children campaign across college campuses for the issue to garner any attention in the US, and by then it was really too late to do anything. Americans generally just don't care about countries they can't find on a map.

                  The other day, a story started going viral relating to this war that has actually gotten attention - because it's happening here. An 8 year old boy whose Christian family fled Nigeria moved to New York City. While still living in a homeless shelter, he won his grade level state chess championship for New York state. I hope that a few of the people who read about this will look at the backstory that led to his family fleeing here, which isn't getting as much attention.

                  Above all else, I think we Christians need to pay attention to what's going on to our brothers and sisters in other countries, and physically help where we can.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Sadly, the fact that people are murdered in war torn countries and countries ruled by power mad dictators isn't really news. And we may have gotten desensitized to it. Can we actually comprehend millions of people dying?
                    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                      Thanks for telling me the operation of my own mind. This thread is in no sense a "litmus test" of whether anybody is a believer or not. It is a statement on the fact that the MSM ignores the persecution of Christians.
                      Magic is not required. You've implied time after time 'there is something wrong' with me not offering a sufficiently loud acknowkedgement of the premise of your thread. Why do I say sufficuently loud? Because I have acknowledged it in this thread already. But it wasn't what you were demanding and so you kept after me for more.

                      Jim
                      He will reply, ĎTruly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                      "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        Magic is not required. You've implied time after time 'there is something wrong' with me not offering a sufficiently loud acknowkedgement of the premise of your thread. Why do I say sufficuently loud? Because I have acknowledged it in this thread already. But it wasn't what you were demanding and so you kept after me for more.

                        Jim
                        You see that implication only in your own mind, Jim. And you didn't acknowledge it until your post before this one, for which I thanked you.

                        I ask you again, for the third time, where have I done this?




                        When we encourage other Christians to live like the world, when we make excuses to hate and to abandon the teachings of Christ and again embrace hatred, bitterness, and revenge, we crucify Him again.
                        If you are not going to answer this, then please don't bother to reply again.


                        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                          You are totally missing the point of this thread, as is Chuck. The point is to show the bias of the MSM against Christians.
                          The thing is, I'm not seeing bias of mainstream media against Christians from these examples. I'm seeing bias of mainstream media against reporting stuff that isn't considered newsworthy regardless of who the target was. The things you've posted as things that aren't getting attention are examples of things that (in the applicable countries) aren't that uncommon, whereas the ones that do get attention are things that are extremely rare. I'm not seeing a pattern of bias against Christians so much as bias against the ordinary.
                          Last edited by Terraceth; 03-20-2019, 07:30 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                            The thing is, I'm not seeing bias of mainstream media against Christians from these examples. I'm seeing bias of mainstream media against reporting stuff that isn't considered newsworthy regardless of who the target was. The things you've posted as things that aren't getting attention are examples of things that (in the applicable countries) aren't that uncommon, whereas the ones that do get attention are things that are extremely rare. I'm not seeing a pattern of bias against Christians so much as bias against the ordinary.
                            And this makes the lack of reporting of persecution of Christians less hypocritical how?


                            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                              And this makes the lack of reporting of persecution of Christians less hypocritical how?
                              Because the fact they are Christians seems incidental to the lack of reporting, at least in the examples given.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                                You see that implication only in your own mind, Jim. And you didn't acknowledge it until your post before this one, for which I thanked you.
                                I acknowledge your point first with an amen to the second post of the thread by Sparko - agreeing with his call to prayer for those suffering.

                                I acknowledged it the second time in post 27 where I was expressing my amazement you would discount an article highlighting the significant persecution of Christians because of a disagreement about theology. I said:

                                Source: oxmixmudd

                                this piece charles links to is quite to the point of this thread and acknowledges quite clearly and in Time magazine the heinous persecution some Christians are suffering at the hand of certain elements of Islam. And it offers advice and solutions consistent with the gospel, with the teachings of Christ.

                                © Copyright Original Source



                                It was here also that you were quite clear to indicate there was something wrong with me in not expressing outrage to your particular set of requirements:

                                Source: mossrose

                                Where's your outrage on the issue of Christians being slaughtered all over the world, Jim, and the fact that the MSM is resounding in their silence regarding it?

                                © Copyright Original Source



                                Clearly, the implication is there is something wrong with me. That implication is not 'just in my head'. And you continued in that vein, though perhaps not so clearly in a accusatory mode.

                                I acknowledged your point a third time in this post (post 34):

                                Source: oxmixmudd

                                It is pretty bad in china. And it is odd we dont hear more about what is going on there in terms of religious persecution. What I don't know is how much similar activites impact other religions in China. But china and russia, communist countries in general, are especially bad in their treatment of christians.

                                © Copyright Original Source



                                And then finally you managed to notice it in post 35 where I said:

                                Source: oxmixmudd

                                Secondarily, while the persecution of Christians IS an issue, and the tendency for the reporting of such issues to be unbalanced IS a problem,

                                © Copyright Original Source



                                That would be 4 times with you acting as it was only once and along the way implying there was something wrong with me because I wasn't all over the MSM about it in a way that would satisfy you.



                                I ask you again, for the third time, where have I done this?
                                I could not quite figure out what you were getting at is why. 'this' would have been clearer had it been 'what you speak of in the text below'.

                                First: I wasn't speaking about you specifically, but the general trend in recent years of dismissing the Sermon on the mount and what it requires in terms of how we treat others, especially our enemies. The idea that turning the other cheek, offering love for hatred, speaking gracefully even when being attacked is somehow 'namby pamby' rather that the brave acts of committed Christians willing to suffer and die without a fight if necessary for the Gospel.

                                Second: This thread, started in response to the New Zealand shooting of Muslims is part and parcel of that same spirit of seeking revenge, seeking the encourage outrage and anger against those you and others perceive as our enemies - the people in the MSM. Had it been started in isolation much it would still have that problem, but much, much more so as a response to such an act. And consistent with that general trend.


                                IF you are not going to answer this, then please don't bother to reply again.

                                Answered.

                                Jim
                                Last edited by oxmixmudd; 03-20-2019, 09:30 PM.
                                He will reply, ĎTruly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                                "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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