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Brexit vote

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  • firstfloor
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    This just in...
    If the UK goes belly up, can I come and live with you?

    Leave a comment:


  • firstfloor
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Any new developments on the Brexit front?
    The main political parties seem to be tearing themselves apart. The vote tonight was about ensuring that the no-deal Brexit possibility remained the default outcome in the event of a failure to reach an agreement with the EU that Parliament approves Ė I think!

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Any new developments on the Brexit front?
    This just in...

    Theresa May humiliated as she loses ANOTHER Brexit vote after Tory MPs pull their support


    THERESA May has once again been humiliated over Brexit after Tory MPs pulled their support for her plans.

    The PMís strategy was left in tatters on Valentine's Day after more than 50 Brexiteers refused to back a motion of support for her, leaving it to be defeated by 303 votes to 258.

    Furious Brexiteers said the motion would effectively rule out Britain leaving without a deal, and destroy our negotiating hand.

    But she vowed to push on ahead with her Brexit plans anyway, insisting that fighting to rip up the hated Northern Irish backstop was the only thing Parliament had said they wanted her to do so far.

    A Downing Street spokesperson blamed Jeremy Corbyn for "putting partisan considerations ahead of the national interest" and "voting to make No Deal more likely".

    They also noted the "concerns" of Brexiteers who voted the motion down because they thought it would effectively take away the threat of leaving without a deal.

    No10 added: "The motion on January 29 remains the only one the House of Commons has passed expressing what it does want Ė and that is legally binding changes to address concerns about the backstop.

    "The Government will continue to pursue this with the EU to ensure we leave on time on March 29."

    A total of 59 Brexit hardliners either abstained or voted against the motion after a meeting of the European Research Group headed by Jacob Rees-Mogg.

    And another 10 Tory MPs who back a second referendum refused to back the Government.

    The defeat represents the eighth time Mrs May has lost a Commons vote on Brexit and a fresh humiliation as she battles to save her deal.

    Critics blasted the PM for not even turning up to see the result of the showdown....

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Any new developments on the Brexit front?

    Leave a comment:


  • EvoUK
    replied
    Last night's votes were a major embarrassment. As is noted here:

    Sensible propositions had been put before them to give them power over the Brexit process. They rejected them one after another. Dominic Grieve wanted to give MPs six days to explore options and direct the government. They voted to deny themselves this powepr by 301 to 321. Yvette Cooper wanted to give them the power to extend Article 50 if it looked like Britain was about to crash out the EU without a deal. They voted to deny themselves this power by 298 to 321.

    The one and only glimmer of hope was an amendment from Caroline Spelman which said MPs rejected leaving the EU without a deal, but contained no actual mechanisms to enforce it. This MPs accepted by 318 to 310. So they were insisting that no-deal should be ruled out but refusing to take any role whatsoever in preventing it themselves. They were like babies in suits.
    What a shambles.

    Leave a comment:


  • firstfloor
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Thanks. I appreciate your perspective on this.
    There is much more that could be said. The border in Ireland is currently invisible. At Brexit it becomes the visible boundary of the EU. All acknowledge that this would be disastrous for peace in NI.

    Will update later.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    The Irish border issue is very tricky and HMG and the EU does not want to undermine the Good Friday Agreement. The problem has to do with dual citizenship.

    "It is the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly [the two governments] confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland."

    Brexiteers donít want the backstop. May has to find an alternative arrangement??? The EU needs to agree!!! I donít see the way forwards at the moment and most Brits donít have a clue about the issues at stake.

    I expect we will land up with a deal pretty similar to the one the PM negotiated but with some backstop exit strategy bolted on. Personally, I voted in 2016 to remain in the EU, but thereís no going back now.
    Thanks. I appreciate your perspective on this.

    Leave a comment:


  • firstfloor
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    So two questions...

    A) What do you think will happen?
    2) What do you wish would happen?
    The Irish border issue is very tricky and HMG and the EU does not want to undermine the Good Friday Agreement. The problem has to do with dual citizenship.

    "It is the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly [the two governments] confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland."

    Brexiteers donít want the backstop. May has to find an alternative arrangement??? The EU needs to agree!!! I donít see the way forwards at the moment and most Brits donít have a clue about the issues at stake.

    I expect we will land up with a deal pretty similar to the one the PM negotiated but with some backstop exit strategy bolted on. Personally, I voted in 2016 to remain in the EU, but thereís no going back now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    BBC News Summary of Commons votes tonight:

    MPs reject all but two amendments to Theresa May's Brexit plan
    MPs back amendments by Tories Sir Graham Brady and Dame Caroline Spelman
    The Brady measure tells the PM to seek an alternative to the Irish backstop
    Dame Caroline's amendment rejected leaving the EU without a withdrawal deal
    Amendments by senior MPs Grieve, Cooper and Reeves defeated
    The prime minister says she wants to reopen the withdrawal agreement
    The EU says the withdrawal agreement is not open for renegotiation

    Two weeks ago the PMís Brexit plan was rejected by Parliament. Now we know what style of plan would be accepted by The Commons but there are still loose ends and the EU have said so far that they will not renegotiate.

    The backstop is a position of last resort, to maintain an open border on the island of Ireland in the event that the UK leaves the EU without securing an all-encompassing deal. The EU originally proposed a backstop that would mean Northern Ireland staying in the EU customs union, large parts of the single market and the EU VAT system. Its chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, continually emphasised that this backstop could only apply to Northern Ireland.

    If a backstop only applied to Northern Ireland, then the customs and regulatory border would essentially be drawn down the middle of the Irish Sea. Goods coming into Northern Ireland from elsewhere in the UK would have to be checked to make sure they met EU standards. Any separate status for Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK is seen as potentially damaging to the union as a whole.

    After months of an impasse, on 14 November 2018, Theresa May said her cabinet had backed a draft deal between UK-EU negotiators that included agreement on a backstop. It would see Northern Ireland staying aligned to some rules of the EU single market, if another solution cannot be found by the end of the transition period in December 2020. That means that goods coming into Northern Ireland would need to be checked to see if they meet EU standards. It would also involve a temporary single custom territory effectively keeping the whole of the UK in the EU customs union - unless and until both the EU and UK agree that it is no longer necessary.

    - BBC

    Brussels is not happy and it looks like they are not going to play along. Some more diplomacy to go, but it needs to get a move on.
    So two questions...

    A) What do you think will happen?
    2) What do you wish would happen?

    Leave a comment:


  • firstfloor
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Since you're closer to this whole Brexit thing, do us a solid and keep us informed, hey?
    BBC News Summary of Commons votes tonight:

    MPs reject all but two amendments to Theresa May's Brexit plan
    MPs back amendments by Tories Sir Graham Brady and Dame Caroline Spelman
    The Brady measure tells the PM to seek an alternative to the Irish backstop
    Dame Caroline's amendment rejected leaving the EU without a withdrawal deal
    Amendments by senior MPs Grieve, Cooper and Reeves defeated
    The prime minister says she wants to reopen the withdrawal agreement
    The EU says the withdrawal agreement is not open for renegotiation

    Two weeks ago the PMís Brexit plan was rejected by Parliament. Now we know what style of plan would be accepted by The Commons but there are still loose ends and the EU have said so far that they will not renegotiate.

    The backstop is a position of last resort, to maintain an open border on the island of Ireland in the event that the UK leaves the EU without securing an all-encompassing deal. The EU originally proposed a backstop that would mean Northern Ireland staying in the EU customs union, large parts of the single market and the EU VAT system. Its chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, continually emphasised that this backstop could only apply to Northern Ireland.

    If a backstop only applied to Northern Ireland, then the customs and regulatory border would essentially be drawn down the middle of the Irish Sea. Goods coming into Northern Ireland from elsewhere in the UK would have to be checked to make sure they met EU standards. Any separate status for Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK is seen as potentially damaging to the union as a whole.

    After months of an impasse, on 14 November 2018, Theresa May said her cabinet had backed a draft deal between UK-EU negotiators that included agreement on a backstop. It would see Northern Ireland staying aligned to some rules of the EU single market, if another solution cannot be found by the end of the transition period in December 2020. That means that goods coming into Northern Ireland would need to be checked to see if they meet EU standards. It would also involve a temporary single custom territory effectively keeping the whole of the UK in the EU customs union - unless and until both the EU and UK agree that it is no longer necessary.

    - BBC

    Brussels is not happy and it looks like they are not going to play along. Some more diplomacy to go, but it needs to get a move on.

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    Is the fog beginning to clear? Letís keep our fingers crossed.
    Since you're closer to this whole Brexit thing, do us a solid and keep us informed, hey?

    Leave a comment:


  • firstfloor
    replied
    Is the fog beginning to clear? Letís keep our fingers crossed.

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    ...and on top of that, Cohen is already established as a liar, so what grounds are there for accepting this alleged statement as true other than "makes Trump look bad"?

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    The Buzzfeed atricle may very well signal the beginning of the end of Trump.

    https://abovethelaw.com/2019/01/dona...-legally-over/
    Except... Mueller team disputes BuzzFeed report claiming Trump told Cohen to lie

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    The Buzzfeed atricle may very well signal the beginning of the end of Trump.

    https://abovethelaw.com/2019/01/dona...-legally-over/
    I think you've got your threads mixed up.

    Leave a comment:

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