Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
President Obama's Foreign Policy
Collapse
X
-
"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sam View PostNot from our friends across the Pond:The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Paprika View PostOne main reason why Obama was elected was that he promised Change.
You got what you asked for.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThanks, Sam. That makes a powerful difference in the story.
I particularly enjoyed the part about "drawing red lines" in Syria, given the previous thread about WMDs in pre-2003 Iraq. It's a trap Conservative pundits and politicians are going to fall headlong into again and again ... logically committing themselves to the position that the possession of chemical and/or biological weapons (even those supplied by the US!) is justification to invade a country but, at the same time, they just can't come out and say that the Iraq War was a good idea.
Iraq possessed and had used chemical weapons so we (Bush) invaded in 2003 and set up a war that cost trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives (in addition to the hundreds of thousands of civilian lives), leaving a chaotic mess where "peace" could only even possibly be attained by perpetual occupation.
Syria possessed and allegedly used chemical weapons so we (Obama) orchestrated a deal with Syria and Russia that destroyed the vast majority of chemical weapons in the country with no occupying force, no war with Syria and minimal cost. Syria remains a chaotic mess where "peace" almost certainly cannot be attained even with perpetual occupation.
Given those realities, as opposed to pie-in-the-sky "We'll be greeted as liberators" nonsense, I'll take Option B any day of the week."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sam View PostI agree. Essentially changing out "objective assessment from foreign journalists" to "partisan op-ed from Daily Caller/Townhall commentator" does make a powerful difference.
I particularly enjoyed the part about "drawing red lines" in Syria, given the previous thread about WMDs in pre-2003 Iraq. It's a trap Conservative pundits and politicians are going to fall headlong into again and again ... logically committing themselves to the position that the possession of chemical and/or biological weapons (even those supplied by the US!) is justification to invade a country but, at the same time, they just can't come out and say that the Iraq War was a good idea.
Iraq possessed and had used chemical weapons so we (Bush) invaded in 2003 and set up a war that cost trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives (in addition to the hundreds of thousands of civilian lives), leaving a chaotic mess where "peace" could only even possibly be attained by perpetual occupation.
Syria possessed and allegedly used chemical weapons so we (Obama) orchestrated a deal with Syria and Russia that destroyed the vast majority of chemical weapons in the country with no occupying force, no war with Syria and minimal cost. Syria remains a chaotic mess where "peace" almost certainly cannot be attained even with perpetual occupation.
Given those realities, as opposed to pie-in-the-sky "We'll be greeted as liberators" nonsense, I'll take Option B any day of the week.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostDoes anybody still think Obama's foreign policy is working well?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNo, I asked for Romney. I did NOT get what I asked for - I had every reason to believe I wasn't going to like the "change" Obama had to offer.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostAre you saying that you voted for Obama the first time around?
Ummmmm... no way, Jose.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSo, to the question....
You're in the "yes" column, yes?
Obama's foreign policy is leagues better than Bush's and better than any foreign policy articulated by Republicans during the last seven years. That's the clear distinction."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sam View PostYou'd have to define "working well." I'd say that Obama is going to end up being one of our better foreign policy presidents, better managing the world's transition back to a multi-polar environment. Heaven knows that there hasn't been any foreign policy in my lifetime that could be considered "working well." It's all been messy and sometimes catastrophic. On a scale of 1 - 10, I'd rate Bush as a 1, his father, Clinton and Obama around 5. Wasn't alive long enough to be aware of Reagan's foreign policy but my limited study of that period puts him around 5 - 6. He cleared the bar for transitioning from two superpowers to one. Obama will clear the bar for transitioning from one superpower to a multi-polar global politic.
Obama's foreign policy is leagues better than Bush's and better than any foreign policy articulated by Republicans during the last seven years. That's the clear distinction.
Thanks, Sam. I would expect no less of you.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sam View PostYou'd have to define "working well." I'd say that Obama is going to end up being one of our better foreign policy presidents
Originally posted by Sam View PostOn a scale of 1 - 10, I'd rate Bush as a 1, his father, Clinton and Obama around 5.
Originally posted by Sam View PostWasn't alive long enough to be aware of Reagan's foreign policy but my limited study of that period puts him around 5 - 6. He cleared the bar for transitioning from two superpowers to one.
Originally posted by Sam View PostObama will clear the bar for transitioning from one superpower to a multi-polar global politic.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostReagan made mistakes (no president doesn't) but he was instrumental in causing the collapse of the old Soviet Union and thus ending the Cold War (something that Obama seems hell bent on reversing).The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThank you Sam. I really needed a belly laugh today. Obama ranks with Jimmy Carter and James Polk as utter and complete failures.
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostClinton was not bad although the elder Bush is under rated in this area. His managing of the Gulf War is a textbook example of how it oughta be done. About the only thing he didn't do right was failed to support the Kurds and Shiites after encouraging them to revolt against Saddam Hussein.
Reagan made mistakes (no president doesn't) but he was instrumental in causing the collapse of the old Soviet Union and thus ending the Cold War (something that Obama seems hell bent on reversing).
Oh, and Reagan shot up the deficit in order to vastly increase defense spending. That was a big part of his foreign policy success, too.
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI assume that you consider weakening America to be a major success of the Obama Administration
And it's a hard task to weaken America more than the guy who blew trillions of dollars and a lot of America's international capital on an unnecessary and trumped-up war and a torture program that was not only ordered but was veritably celebrated by top officials."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
I assume that you consider weakening America to be a major success of the Obama Administration
Ironically many 'muricans will maintain that America should remain the sole superpower while believing in the myth of democracy where balance of power is supposed to be one major ideal.
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
|
16 responses
173 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by One Bad Pig
Yesterday, 11:55 AM
|
||
Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
|
53 responses
411 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Mountain Man
Yesterday, 11:32 AM
|
||
Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
|
25 responses
114 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Yesterday, 08:36 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
|
33 responses
198 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Roy
Yesterday, 07:43 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
|
84 responses
383 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by JimL
Yesterday, 11:08 AM
|
Comment