Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

President Obama's Foreign Policy

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Does anybody still think Obama's foreign policy is working well?
    Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
    Obama inherited the commitments, but wasn't actually going to keep or enforce any of them. It simply took a while for the rest of the world to get both the picture and the courage to move on his lack of convictions.
    One main reason why Obama was elected was that he promised Change.

    You got what you asked for.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      From our friends across the Pond....

      Source: UK Telegraph


      President Barack Obama's national security flops just keep coming.

      A strange obsession with setting out his national security agenda is backfiring for President Barack Obama

      The US leader President Barack Obama tried again this week to hit the reset button on his reputation as America’s guardian of national security.

      While the issue plagues his poll ratings and his many speeches crowd out other more fruitful areas for a Democratic president, there he was again on Wednesday at West Point, outlining his foreign policy strategy.

      The reception for the speech was dire.

      The Washington Post declared that he had “marshaled a virtual corps of straw men,” in making an argument for an “Obama doctrine” that was at odds with every US president since the Second World War.

      Aside from the very serious real-world consequences, Obama’s foreign policy failure also has serious political consequences.

      © Copyright Original Source

      Not from our friends across the Pond:

      Source: Ibid



      Matt K. Lewis is a senior contributor at The Daily Caller website in Washington, DC

      © Copyright Original Source

      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Sam View Post
        Not from our friends across the Pond:
        Thanks, Sam. That makes a powerful difference in the story.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Paprika View Post
          One main reason why Obama was elected was that he promised Change.

          You got what you asked for.
          No, I asked for Romney. I did NOT get what I asked for - I had every reason to believe I wasn't going to like the "change" Obama had to offer.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Thanks, Sam. That makes a powerful difference in the story.
            I agree. Essentially changing out "objective assessment from foreign journalists" to "partisan op-ed from Daily Caller/Townhall commentator" does make a powerful difference.

            I particularly enjoyed the part about "drawing red lines" in Syria, given the previous thread about WMDs in pre-2003 Iraq. It's a trap Conservative pundits and politicians are going to fall headlong into again and again ... logically committing themselves to the position that the possession of chemical and/or biological weapons (even those supplied by the US!) is justification to invade a country but, at the same time, they just can't come out and say that the Iraq War was a good idea.

            Iraq possessed and had used chemical weapons so we (Bush) invaded in 2003 and set up a war that cost trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives (in addition to the hundreds of thousands of civilian lives), leaving a chaotic mess where "peace" could only even possibly be attained by perpetual occupation.

            Syria possessed and allegedly used chemical weapons so we (Obama) orchestrated a deal with Syria and Russia that destroyed the vast majority of chemical weapons in the country with no occupying force, no war with Syria and minimal cost. Syria remains a chaotic mess where "peace" almost certainly cannot be attained even with perpetual occupation.

            Given those realities, as opposed to pie-in-the-sky "We'll be greeted as liberators" nonsense, I'll take Option B any day of the week.
            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Sam View Post
              I agree. Essentially changing out "objective assessment from foreign journalists" to "partisan op-ed from Daily Caller/Townhall commentator" does make a powerful difference.

              I particularly enjoyed the part about "drawing red lines" in Syria, given the previous thread about WMDs in pre-2003 Iraq. It's a trap Conservative pundits and politicians are going to fall headlong into again and again ... logically committing themselves to the position that the possession of chemical and/or biological weapons (even those supplied by the US!) is justification to invade a country but, at the same time, they just can't come out and say that the Iraq War was a good idea.

              Iraq possessed and had used chemical weapons so we (Bush) invaded in 2003 and set up a war that cost trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives (in addition to the hundreds of thousands of civilian lives), leaving a chaotic mess where "peace" could only even possibly be attained by perpetual occupation.

              Syria possessed and allegedly used chemical weapons so we (Obama) orchestrated a deal with Syria and Russia that destroyed the vast majority of chemical weapons in the country with no occupying force, no war with Syria and minimal cost. Syria remains a chaotic mess where "peace" almost certainly cannot be attained even with perpetual occupation.

              Given those realities, as opposed to pie-in-the-sky "We'll be greeted as liberators" nonsense, I'll take Option B any day of the week.
              So, to the question....

              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Does anybody still think Obama's foreign policy is working well?
              You're in the "yes" column, yes?
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                No, I asked for Romney. I did NOT get what I asked for - I had every reason to believe I wasn't going to like the "change" Obama had to offer.
                Are you saying that you voted for Obama the first time around?

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Are you saying that you voted for Obama the first time around?


                  Ummmmm... no way, Jose.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    So, to the question....



                    You're in the "yes" column, yes?
                    You'd have to define "working well." I'd say that Obama is going to end up being one of our better foreign policy presidents, better managing the world's transition back to a multi-polar environment. Heaven knows that there hasn't been any foreign policy in my lifetime that could be considered "working well." It's all been messy and sometimes catastrophic. On a scale of 1 - 10, I'd rate Bush as a 1, his father, Clinton and Obama around 5. Wasn't alive long enough to be aware of Reagan's foreign policy but my limited study of that period puts him around 5 - 6. He cleared the bar for transitioning from two superpowers to one. Obama will clear the bar for transitioning from one superpower to a multi-polar global politic.

                    Obama's foreign policy is leagues better than Bush's and better than any foreign policy articulated by Republicans during the last seven years. That's the clear distinction.
                    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sam View Post
                      You'd have to define "working well." I'd say that Obama is going to end up being one of our better foreign policy presidents, better managing the world's transition back to a multi-polar environment. Heaven knows that there hasn't been any foreign policy in my lifetime that could be considered "working well." It's all been messy and sometimes catastrophic. On a scale of 1 - 10, I'd rate Bush as a 1, his father, Clinton and Obama around 5. Wasn't alive long enough to be aware of Reagan's foreign policy but my limited study of that period puts him around 5 - 6. He cleared the bar for transitioning from two superpowers to one. Obama will clear the bar for transitioning from one superpower to a multi-polar global politic.

                      Obama's foreign policy is leagues better than Bush's and better than any foreign policy articulated by Republicans during the last seven years. That's the clear distinction.

                      Thanks, Sam. I would expect no less of you.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sam View Post
                        You'd have to define "working well." I'd say that Obama is going to end up being one of our better foreign policy presidents
                        Thank you Sam. I really needed a belly laugh today. Obama ranks with Jimmy Carter and James Polk as utter and complete failures.

                        Originally posted by Sam View Post
                        On a scale of 1 - 10, I'd rate Bush as a 1, his father, Clinton and Obama around 5.
                        Clinton was not bad although the elder Bush is under rated in this area. His managing of the Gulf War is a textbook example of how it oughta be done. About the only thing he didn't do right was failed to support the Kurds and Shiites after encouraging them to revolt against Saddam Hussein.

                        Originally posted by Sam View Post
                        Wasn't alive long enough to be aware of Reagan's foreign policy but my limited study of that period puts him around 5 - 6. He cleared the bar for transitioning from two superpowers to one.
                        Reagan made mistakes (no president doesn't) but he was instrumental in causing the collapse of the old Soviet Union and thus ending the Cold War (something that Obama seems hell bent on reversing).

                        Originally posted by Sam View Post
                        Obama will clear the bar for transitioning from one superpower to a multi-polar global politic.
                        I assume that you consider weakening America to be a major success of the Obama Administration

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Reagan made mistakes (no president doesn't) but he was instrumental in causing the collapse of the old Soviet Union and thus ending the Cold War (something that Obama seems hell bent on reversing).
                          Plus, he did an outstanding job handling the Iran Speedboat crisis (blew up the platforms from which they were attacking shipping) and Libya's feeble attempt at expanding its claim on international waters (freedom of navigation exercises by our Sixth Fleet Tomcats).
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Thank you Sam. I really needed a belly laugh today. Obama ranks with Jimmy Carter and James Polk as utter and complete failures.
                            I guess we'll see. The handful of historians I know, even the one who really doesn't like Obama, don't put him anywhere near the bottom. That honor goes to his immediate predecessor.


                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Clinton was not bad although the elder Bush is under rated in this area. His managing of the Gulf War is a textbook example of how it oughta be done. About the only thing he didn't do right was failed to support the Kurds and Shiites after encouraging them to revolt against Saddam Hussein.


                            Reagan made mistakes (no president doesn't) but he was instrumental in causing the collapse of the old Soviet Union and thus ending the Cold War (something that Obama seems hell bent on reversing).
                            You were being pretty reasonable there before the nonsense about reversing the Cold War. And Reagan was instrumental in the collapse of the Soviet Union precisely because he was a pragmatist who utilized regional containment rather than outright war ... we'll leave it up to the gallery to figure out whether that sounds more like Bush or Obama.

                            Oh, and Reagan shot up the deficit in order to vastly increase defense spending. That was a big part of his foreign policy success, too.


                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            I assume that you consider weakening America to be a major success of the Obama Administration
                            Arguing that the USA could remain the only global power for any significant time into the future is silly. China and Russia are both huge powers and, if the Iraq War is going to jam even one lesson into the stone-age skulls of neocons, it's that being a global superpower does not guarantee any success in regional conflicts. So the world, whether Americans admit it or not, is going to be multi-polar for the foreseeable future. The USA, Russia, China, India, the EU, Latin America ... all are going to have significant, though not dominate, power in regional conflicts. Obama has done well maneuvering the USA so as to retain its influence even as other military powers grow or flex their own muscles. Unless you're advocating that we bomb China, Russia, et al. a few centuries back in time, nothing Obama or any other president between 2009 and 2017 could do would change that.

                            And it's a hard task to weaken America more than the guy who blew trillions of dollars and a lot of America's international capital on an unnecessary and trumped-up war and a torture program that was not only ordered but was veritably celebrated by top officials.
                            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              No, I asked for Romney. I did NOT get what I asked for - I had every reason to believe I wasn't going to like the "change" Obama had to offer.
                              That was the plural you, referring to the collective.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post

                                I assume that you consider weakening America to be a major success of the Obama Administration
                                Yes.

                                Ironically many 'muricans will maintain that America should remain the sole superpower while believing in the myth of democracy where balance of power is supposed to be one major ideal.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, 03-27-2024, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                173 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                411 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                114 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                198 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                383 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X