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Time To Smear Kavanaugh's Good Name...

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  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I would say labeling a source as a "left wing rag" qualifies. Justifying the fallacy by a dismissive list of all the types of deceptions you think are present in the list doesn't do much to help your case. The list clearly says "false or misleading." While there are a handful of things I encountered in the first hundred entries that I found questionable (i.e., might have been said facetiously) the vast majority were spot on, and overlap with similar lists from a multitude of sources.

    Your dismissal not withstanding, the president of this country is a documented liar who has publicly made it clear that he sees lying as a viable tool in his "media management" took kit. He has little/no credibility.
    So you've gone from accusing me of genetic fallacy to being "dismissive". That's probably as close to a concession as you'll be willing to give.
    Last edited by Mountain Man; 10-02-2018, 10:56 AM.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      Do you understand the point that the vast majority of fertilized eggs naturally die and fail to survive to birth? Even the highest rates of voluntary human abortion in any country come nowhere near to the number of embryos that 'nature' / 'God' / the natural processes kill off.
      The vast majority of human beings naturally die. So I guess that means murdering people is just fine then?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Roy View Post
        Not against rape attempts.
        http://tinseltownmom.com/10-celebrit...d-out-of-rape/
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        - Stephen R. Donaldson

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
          Your point seems to be that with the loss of consciousness you are going to die, meaning you will not be a living human being.
          No. My point is that consciousness is but one of a host of interrelated processes that keep mature members of our species functioning. But it is wholly unnecessary for the first several stages of our maturation process. But its lack of development at the earliest stages in no way changes the fact that we are living members of our species - ergo human beings.
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          - Stephen R. Donaldson

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ignorant Roy View Post
            Classic "elephant hurling" consists of claiming that there is copious evidence, but not providing any details. That list provides details.
            It also refers to the practice of "hurling" a large amount of claims, "detailed" or otherwise, at an opponent with the implications that they bear the burden of addressing or refuting every single one in order to defeat the argument.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
              47,000 women die annually from unsafe abortions.
              Mainly in areas where medical treatment is at stone-aged level.

              44 million abortions are carried out annually
              Disgusting.

              and about half of those are unsafe.
              Unsafe abortion is defined by the World Health Organization (WHO) as a procedure for terminating an unintended pregnancy carried out either by persons lacking the necessary skills or in an environment that does not conform to minimal medical standards, or both.

              So, a good chunk can be chalked up to poor facilities in countries where it is still legal.

              Nothing the church does will save unwanted pregnancies.
              I believe CP already cited one from his personal experience.

              If they had any humanity they would concentrate their efforts towards women’s healthcare.
              What makes you think they don't?
              That's what
              - She

              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
              - Stephen R. Donaldson

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                It also refers to the practice of "hurling" a large amount of claims, "detailed" or otherwise, at an opponent with the implications that they bear the burden of addressing or refuting every single one in order to defeat the argument.
                Not according to Jon Sarfati, who popularised the term - or according to every other use of "elephant hurling" I've ever seen, with one exception - when some-one was avoiding using the more appropriate "Gish gallop".
                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ignorant Roy View Post
                  Not according to Jon Sarfati, who popularised the term - or according to every other use of "elephant hurling" I've ever seen, with one exception - when some-one was avoiding using the more appropriate "Gish gallop".
                  "...when the critic throws summary arguments about complex issues to give the impression of weighty evidence, but with an unstated presumption that a large complex of underlying ideas is true, and failing to consider opposing data, usually because they have uncritically accepted the arguments from their own side."
                  http://www.astorehouseofknowledge.in...ephant_hurling
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    "...when the critic throws summary arguments about complex issues to give the impression of weighty evidence, but with an unstated presumption that a large complex of underlying ideas is true, and failing to consider opposing data, usually because they have uncritically accepted the arguments from their own side."
                    http://www.astorehouseofknowledge.in...ephant_hurling
                    Exactly right. Now you just need to understand it.

                    Hint:
                    "Trump tells lots of lies" is a summary argument, that only gives an impression of weighty evidence.
                    "These are the lies Trump told: ..." is not a summary argument, and provides more than just an impression of the weighty evidence.
                    Last edited by Roy; 10-02-2018, 12:00 PM. Reason: typo
                    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      So you've gone from accusing me of genetic fallacy to being "dismissive". That's probably as close to a concession as you'll be willing to give.
                      The "genetic fallacy" is about dismissal. It dismisses a point/argument on the basis of its source. I thought you knew this. Your attempt to avoid the genetic fallacy by providing a long list of adjectives about the content doesn't let you escape the fallacy. Sorry, MM, but your response had no real content.

                      At this point - I think that case has been adequately made. Last word to you.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                        Not according to Jon Sarfati...
                        I had a college professor way back when who used to like to cite him, but she always pronounced his name "Jon Safarti". I honestly don't think she knew she was doing that.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          I had a college professor way back when who used to like to cite him, but she always pronounced his name "Jon Safarti". I honestly don't think she knew she was doing that.
                          I use the mnemonic "fat, not fart". It seems to work.
                          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                            I use the mnemonic "fat, not fart". It seems to work.
                            Until my senior year in High School, I was a profound stutterer - lots of speech therapy. There was one phrase I could not pronounce at all --- Grand Ole Opry. I would try and try, and my speech therapist told me not to try to say 'Grand Ole Opry' - say 'Grando Loppry'. I was HEALED!
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • So, Flake's "deal" to require an FBI background check was obviously just more stall tactics, because he's already saying...

                              Jeff Flake: ‘We Can’t Have That on the Court’

                              Sounds like time wasted, he's still a no.

                              Speaking with Jeffrey Rosen, the president of the Constitution Center, and Democratic Senator Chris Coons at The Atlantic Festival on Tuesday morning, Flake called the judge’s interactions with lawmakers “sharp and partisan.”

                              “We can’t have that on the Court,” said the Arizona senator, who didn’t elaborate on which interactions he was referring to.

                              Flake’s “gentleman’s agreement” with Coons, from Delaware, led to the FBI reopening its investigation into Kavanaugh late last week. The bureau is examining the sexual-assault allegations of Christine Blasey Ford, who also testified on Thursday.


                              Or maybe not?

                              Kavanaugh’s nomination seemed poised to advance before Flake and Coons made a deal.

                              I caught up with Flake briefly as he left the event, and asked if this meant he would not vote to confirm Kavanaugh, even if the FBI cleared him by week’s end. He appeared rattled, and his handlers rushed him into the stairwell. “I didn’t say that …” he stammered. “I wasn’t referring to him.”


                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                So, Flake's "deal" to require an FBI background check was obviously just more stall tactics, because he's already saying...

                                Jeff Flake: ‘We Can’t Have That on the Court’

                                Sounds like time wasted, he's still a no.

                                Speaking with Jeffrey Rosen, the president of the Constitution Center, and Democratic Senator Chris Coons at The Atlantic Festival on Tuesday morning, Flake called the judge’s interactions with lawmakers “sharp and partisan.”

                                “We can’t have that on the Court,” said the Arizona senator, who didn’t elaborate on which interactions he was referring to.

                                Flake’s “gentleman’s agreement” with Coons, from Delaware, led to the FBI reopening its investigation into Kavanaugh late last week. The bureau is examining the sexual-assault allegations of Christine Blasey Ford, who also testified on Thursday.


                                Or maybe not?

                                Kavanaugh’s nomination seemed poised to advance before Flake and Coons made a deal.

                                I caught up with Flake briefly as he left the event, and asked if this meant he would not vote to confirm Kavanaugh, even if the FBI cleared him by week’s end. He appeared rattled, and his handlers rushed him into the stairwell. “I didn’t say that …” he stammered. “I wasn’t referring to him.”


                                FWIU Flake had indicated he was going to vote yes until he cornered by protesters who talked him into asking for one last background check. Barring any legitimate concerns arising from it he will likely still vote to confirm.

                                The real question are the Democrats in deeply red states who are up for re-election and who were banking on Kavanaugh stepping aside and sparing them from voting. Since he didn't Cuomo has been repeatedly urging them not to panic and adopt a wait and see attitude wrt the fence straddling Republicans.
                                Last edited by rogue06; 10-02-2018, 01:08 PM.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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