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Time To Smear Kavanaugh's Good Name...

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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    That's what the bedrock principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' is all about. The liberals pretend this doesn't count unless it's an actual court case.
    "Innocent until proven guilty" is the bedrock of our court system. It is not the guiding principle of a job interview. There are many reasons I might reject a candidate for a job that have nothing to do with guilt or innocence.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      Well, the evidence presented and the circumstances were what they were.
      The evidence, Bill, was largely he-said/she-said. It does not support ANY of us calling anyone a "liar."

      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      Predicting I would come down on the side of where the evidence led isn't rocket science. Good job.
      It could not have been a prediction based on evidence because the evidence is circumstantial and inconclusive - it would only be a prediction based on your reliable slant to your existing bias. And I said "could have." Obviously I didn't because I never even asked myself "what would BTC say" before you actually said it.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        Yeah girls don't lie about sexual assault...

        Five high school 'mean girls' targeted boy with false accusations of sexual assault, lawsuit claims

        A group of five high school “mean girls” in Pennsylvania confessed to targeting a boy with false sexual assault allegations just because they “don’t like him.”

        The boy’s parents, Michael J. and Alicia Flood, have launched a lawsuit seeking unspecified damages, claiming the girls at Seneca Valley High School in Pittsburgh “conspired in person and via electronic communication devices to falsely accuse [their son] of sexual assault on two occasions.”

        The parents dubbed the group “mean girls” in reference to the 2004 cult classic of a high school clique starring Lindsay Lohan. They are suing the girls' parents, the school district and the Butler County District Attorney's office.
        ...
        The first girl accused the boy of assaulting her in July 2017 at the swimming pool. Another girl, named as Megan Villegas, the only one named in the suit because the others are minors, said she was present during the assault.

        But the first girl later admitted making up the allegations, saying “I just don’t like him.”

        She allegedly justified her decision to fabricate the allegations during a recorded interview with school officials that was obtained by Fishman. “I just don’t like to hear him talk. … I don’t like to look at him.”

        The boy was charged with indecent assault and two counts of harassment. He pleaded not guilty, but was put on probation.

        In October 2017, the same girl who accused him of sexual assault allegedly told her fellow classmates that she would “do anything to get [the boy] expelled.” This led to a bullying campaign by other students against him. In one example provided by the lawsuit, someone taped a word “PREDATOR” on the student’s back during a choir practice.

        The male student was hit with another accusation of sexual assault in March. A friend of the first girl told a school official that he sexually assaulted her at her home. The allegations were backed up by two other girls.

        This led to the male teen getting charged with indecent assault, criminal trespass and simple assault in April. He was reportedly arrested at the school and spent nine days in a detention center after being deemed a threat to the community.

        Just a month later, the three girls recanted their allegations and admitted lying about the sexual assault.
        ...
        “Once the allegations were proven false, they really didn't care one bit about [the boy] and there has been absolutely no repercussions against the girls,” he added.

        https://www.foxnews.com/us/five-high...lawsuit-claims
        Who on earth said "girls don't lie about sexual assault?" Of course there are instances of girls lying about being sexually assaulted. And there are instances of boys lying about being the sexual assaulter as well. AFAICT, the latter is overwhelmingly more common than the former. But the existence of both is what makes this a complex situation, since usually all we have is the word of the individual people involved as to what happened.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          No. First of all, this is not a court of law or a trial. It is more of a job interview.
          Will you liberals just drop this idiotic canard? It is not a job interview. they already had that. This was an investigation of a crime, heard by congress, regarding the highest court position in the country. It deserves the same jurisprudence and level of evidence as any court of law. This is basically the government accusing a citizen of a crime, the same as in a court.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            Who on earth said "girls don't lie about sexual assault?" Of course there are instances of girls lying about being sexually assaulted. And there are instances of boys lying about being the sexual assaulter as well. AFAICT, the latter is overwhelmingly more common than the former. But the existence of both is what makes this a complex situation, since usually all we have is the word of the individual people involved as to what happened.
            The liberal chant has been "women don't lie about sexual assault! 98% of all sexual assault claims are true! You have to believe the woman or you are a misogynist bigot who hates women!"

            Well, the fact is, woman are just as likely as men are to make up lies about just about anything, including sexual assault. That is why we shouldn't believe any accuser without sufficient evidence. It is not about calling the accuser a liar or being a bigot, it is about being fair. It is about the presumption of innocence that is a foundation of all free societies.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              The liberal chant has been "women don't lie about sexual assault! 98% of all sexual assault claims are true! You have to believe the woman or you are a misogynist bigot who hates women!"

              Well, the fact is, woman are just as likely as men are to make up lies about just about anything, including sexual assault. That is why we shouldn't believe any accuser without sufficient evidence. It is not about calling the accuser a liar or being a bigot, it is about being fair. It is about the presumption of innocence that is a foundation of all free societies.
              Hmm. Potipher's wife comes to mind........caused all kinds of trouble for Joseph.


              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                The liberal chant has been "women don't lie about sexual assault! 98% of all sexual assault claims are true! You have to believe the woman or you are a misogynist bigot who hates women!"

                Well, the fact is, woman are just as likely as men are to make up lies about just about anything, including sexual assault. That is why we shouldn't believe any accuser without sufficient evidence. It is not about calling the accuser a liar or being a bigot, it is about being fair. It is about the presumption of innocence that is a foundation of all free societies.
                The statistics are that women claiming sexual assault are lying about 2 to 7% of the time. I have posted those statistics. Fortunately our society has not deteriorated to the point most people do not routinely lie about things like that. Your approach to this situation is irrational and a large number of people taking on the position you have adopted will make things worse, not make things better. Innocent till proven guilty is sufficient deterrent to a women lying about this. She can't accomplish anything significant without some sort of proof in a court of law. The public response to the accusations of women in situations like this has in the past disproportionately favored the man for a large number of reasons, giving aggressive predatory men an advantage.

                It is changing. But like so many issues like this, the danger is an overreaction the other way. And I'm sure that fuels your fears. Nevertheless the right position is to move towards a position that is balanced and tries to provide rational and a fair response to both sides in a he said/she said situation. The burden of proof is always on the accuser in a legal scenario. It will always be hard for woman assaulted to get justice in the courts if she does not have rigorous proof. Likewise it will always be easier for a man to get away with assault in a legal case if he manages to do it in a setting and in a way that has no physical proof.

                The real danger here is in cases like workplace accusations of assault where one is in a private setting with a woman. With the change in public perception and the knowledge that most of the time aggressive sexual actions are not egged on by women and it is men that are the most likely to go beyond the wishes of the woman, good men can clearly find themselves in a bad position. The moral there is to be very careful of 1 on 1 situations with the opposite sex. And for goodness sake don't play anywhere near the line when it comes to potentially offensive behavior or comments, especially at work.

                For the man who would never push it, who would never take advantage of a woman, the change in the capacity for a woman to be believed in a he said/she said does increase the danger of such a person facing a great deal of stress and anguish over a false accusation if he gets on the bad side of the wrong woman. That is the price of a balanced approach to these situations. The number of people potentially facing injustice becomes more evenly balanced between the two sexes.

                So be careful out there.



                Jim
                Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-10-2018, 03:29 PM.
                He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Will you liberals just drop this idiotic canard? It is not a job interview. they already had that. This was an investigation of a crime, heard by congress, regarding the highest court position in the country. It deserves the same jurisprudence and level of evidence as any court of law. This is basically the government accusing a citizen of a crime, the same as in a court.
                  I have to wonder how many job interviews carpe is aware of where a series of interviewers accuse the prospective employee of being a rapist and such. It was an interview in the same way that an Inquisition interrogation was a social outing.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                    Hmm. Potipher's wife comes to mind........caused all kinds of trouble for Joseph.
                    But the stats show such situations are rare. It is a nightmare scenario for most men, and because men think in sexual situations with something other than their brain, it does in effect give an unscrupulous woman an advantage.

                    It doesn't change the fact that most of the time the person facing injustice in these situations is female.

                    The principles that we use to deal with he said/she said should be fair. They have been unbalanced for a very, very long time.

                    We just need ladies like you mossy to help make sure there is not excessive backlash the other way


                    Jim
                    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      Will you liberals just drop this idiotic canard?
                      If I see any liberals, I'll let them know

                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      It is not a job interview. they already had that.
                      Yes - it is... Kavanaugh was being interviewed for the position of justice on SCOTUS.

                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      This was an investigation of a crime, heard by congress, regarding the highest court position in the country. It deserves the same jurisprudence and level of evidence as any court of law. This is basically the government accusing a citizen of a crime, the same as in a court.
                      No. This was not a trial. It was an extension of the interview of Kavanaugh for confirmation to the Senate. Kavanaugh was not being impeached - and no indictment was handed down. He was being considered for a position.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        The evidence, Bill, was largely he-said/she-said.
                        And the people she said could back her up said they didn't know anything about it. Therefore, what "she said" can reasonably be attributed to fiction.

                        It does not support ANY of us calling anyone a "liar."
                        Yes it does. When no one you claim that can corroborate your story says they know anything about it, your truthfulness can reasonably be called into question.


                        It could not have been a prediction based on evidence because the evidence is circumstantial and inconclusive
                        The evidence was clearly conclusive. She made claims that no one even remotely backed up, despite her claiming they could. Instead of reporting this supposed incident to police, who could possibly do something about it, she chose a Senator at the beginning of a confirmation process. That is an odd choice to make, isn't it?

                        - it would only be a prediction based on your reliable slant to your existing bias. And I said "could have." Obviously I didn't because I never even asked myself "what would BTC say" before you actually said it.
                        As a victim of sexual assault myself, and yes I reported it, my bias is actually toward the alleged victims first. That's why I wanted to hear her story. Not from Dianne Feinstein or anyone else's filter.
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          The liberal chant has been "women don't lie about sexual assault! 98% of all sexual assault claims are true! You have to believe the woman or you are a misogynist bigot who hates women!"
                          I don't listen to "chants" all that much. I do know that the studies and data show that, with respect to sexual assault, women as usually disbelieved/discounted (mostly by men), are usually telling the truth, and are very reluctant to come forward as a result. Each time a woman does what these women in the article do, they reaffirm this disbelief and do a terrible disservice to other women.

                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          Well, the fact is, woman are just as likely as men are to make up lies about just about anything, including sexual assault. That is why we shouldn't believe any accuser without sufficient evidence. It is not about calling the accuser a liar or being a bigot, it is about being fair. It is about the presumption of innocence that is a foundation of all free societies.
                          Not just as likely. That is not what the data shows.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            I have to wonder how many job interviews carpe is aware of where a series of interviewers accuse the prospective employee of being a rapist and such. It was an interview in the same way that an Inquisition interrogation was a social outing.
                            When the job interview is for a high profile, public position, it happens.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              When the job interview is for a high profile, public position, it happens.
                              The "job interviews" (MANY of them) happened in Senators' offices - as I said before, the hearing was a "job interview" like Custer's last stand was a "meet & greet".

                              It is downright idiotic to call what happened a "job interview".
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                But the stats show such situations are rare. It is a nightmare scenario for most men, and because men think in sexual situations with something other than their brain, it does in effect give an unscrupulous woman an advantage.

                                It doesn't change the fact that most of the time the person facing injustice in these situations is female.

                                The principles that we use to deal with he said/she said should be fair. They have been unbalanced for a very, very long time.

                                We just need ladies like you mossy to help make sure there is not excessive backlash the other way


                                Jim
                                The best preventative for injustice is to not believe anyone unless they have evidence. investigate, sure. but if no evidence turns up, you can't just decide, oh well the statistics overwhelmingly say she must be telling the truth so we will arrest him anyway.

                                Again, due process and presumption of innocence. Does that mean that there will be some cases where a guilty person goes free? Yes, of course. Not only in sexual assaults but in any crime, theft, burglary, regular assault, murder, etc. But our country and most other free countries believe it is better for a guilty person to go free than an innocent person be convicted. Even though sometimes the latter still happens too.

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