Time To Smear Kavanaugh's Good Name...

[Leonhard]

Again, I don't remember him saying he was never drunk.

I misread what he said what about legal age of 18. He did indeed claim that he drank, and that he drank a lot of beers and sometimes too many.

I'll rescind my point about that. Thanks seer.

[One Bad Pig]

I don't think he ever denied being drunk, but he did deny blacking out. And all the times I was three sheets to the wind, there was only one time I blacked out. It was memorable!

Only time (aside from my 21st birthday) I blacked out, I tucked my buddy into bed, set up a trash can for him to puke in, and managed to find my own barracks room.

[Leonhard]

Only time (aside from my 21st birthday) I blacked out, I tucked my buddy into bed, set up a trash can for him to puke in, and managed to find my own barracks room.

Is blacking out fainting, or just falling asleep unusually early?

[One Bad Pig]

Is blacking out fainting, or just falling asleep unusually early?

Blacking out is so drunk you don't remember what you did during that time.

[Littlejoe]

I've been thinking about this for a while.

I'd say its likely what she says is true, more likely than not. There is nothing about missing details that make her testimony implausible, this is what memory looks like, even for traumatic memory. The problem is that the research I read about traumatic memories is that they tend to grow worse over the years. The exact extent of what happened that night, how bad it really was, is almost impossible to judge from her memory. Some details grow seemingly clearer, though what's actually happening is that the memory is growing worse, like a story that gets refined over time. Some details are seared in, others aren't. Photographic memory does not result from trauma. For instance she claims she's certain its Kavanaugh, and its a legitimate trauma I find that hard to dismiss.

Her psychotherapist's testimony would have been useful to distinguish how Ford related to these memories. Were they haunting her, were they recurring, etc... but we don't have that. So its even harder to judge anything about what she remembers, and how it reflects what happened.

Unlike the article Cow Poke posted, I don't believe Ford is telling 'fibs and fables', I don't believe she's lying. The story itself isn't implausible. Cow Poke's linked article calls it Hollywood glitz, which seems to deny the problem of frat boys raping girls, which has become a significant problem.

Kavanaugh was a preppy frat back when he was young. Him having a wife and a career in no way makes it implausible that he went to stag fests (which he hasn't denied), or gotten drunk (which he does deny - though its rather implausible). There is nothing in any way unlikely about him getting grabby with a girl.

At the end of the day, her claim is plausible. Kavanaugh, was likely a frat. Who advanced on a girl, in a way he shouldn't, but not in a way he noticed. If Kavanaugh did anything, which I'm uncertain about (repeating it again for my conservative friends), I don't think he remembers. I don't think he's lying when he says he didn't do anything like that.

I do believe he's lying if he says he's never gotten drunk at those parties.

Reasonable doubt remains though. This should have been clear from the start. Throughout this discussion that what I've said. The situation is in no way comparable to OJ Simpson for instance. There are no forensic evidence. There are no witnesses who can or will corroborate. It wasn't the work of a clever lawyer that turned the opinions of people. It wasn't even a trial. There just wasn't any good hard evidence.

So even if her testimony is prima facia plausible, too much doubt remains. We can't legally judge a man based on memories of one person, so long after the event, without any more details to back up the claim.

The Democrats should be ashamed for dragging her into the public light, making her believe her testimony would carry the weight it couldn't. I don't think any of it is Ford's fault, she shouldn't be blamed, and the way she's been hunted down by conservatives is shameful. As is of course the way Kavanaugh has been targeted.

I wish there could be a stronger resolution, but I think likely only God knows what happened that night.

One other point of order, this supposedly happened in High School. (I've seen he was 17 as she testified she was 15) So, Kavanaugh would not have yet been a "Frat Boy" (sure he was one later but not at the time of the alleged incident). AFAIK, Fraternities are pretty much only in College/University.

[Leonhard]

Blacking out is so drunk you don't remember what you did during that time.

Definitely never had that happen. Though I did once drink so much that vomited. Which was the first time I drank. And ever since then I've never been able to drink mead.

[Leonhard]

One other point of order, this supposedly happened in High School. (I've seen he was 17 as she testified she was 15) So, Kavanaugh would not have yet been a "Frat Boy" (sure he was one later but not at the time of the alleged incident). AFAIK, Fraternities are pretty much only in College/University.

Frat, stag, hound, stout, ... At this point its a distinction without a difference, except to the matter of campus rapes. Thanks for advicing me though.

[Terraceth]

I actually never left a political party, because I never joined one. I personally think the two parties have too-significant a strangle hold on our political process, leaving too many people with the reality that if they vote for a third party, they are effectively giving that vote away. For example, since the green party is "liberal," a vote for a Green Party candidate harms the Democrats and helps the Republicans - it does nothing for the Green Party. A vote for a Libertarian Party candidate tends to have the opposite effect.

This may be true for the Green Party (though I remember reading that exit polls showed that a surprisingly high amount of Nader's voters had George Bush as their second option), but I'm much more skeptical about the Libertarian Party. The Libertarian Party's positions on abortion, the military, immigration, prostitution, drugs, and several other things are in direct contrast to the Republican Party's. The Constitution Party would have been a better example.

Maybe the American Solidarity Party can make real inroads given their platform has appeal to both conservatives and liberals, but they're still new and probably have a ways to go before they can even get to the level of the Green Party in terms of popularity.

Some of these parties might actually have a chance of succeeding, but we would need to have nationalized run-off voting for that to happen. Until we do, Dems and Reps will lock up the system.

I don't know if the issue is even first past the post voting. Sure, that strongly favors a two-party system, but doesn't guarantee it. In fact, even among first past the post countries, the US seems abnormally entrenched in its two-party system; see the UK and Canada for other such countries that, while having two parties that dominant discourse, still have other parties that get elected into their national legislature. I suppose someone might say that if one party gets a majority by themselves the number of parties doesn't necessarily matter, but I do know that the UK at least sometimes needs coalitions to form a majority (not sure if Canada has ever had to), as is actually the case right now.

[carpedm9587]

This may be true for the Green Party (though I remember reading that exit polls showed that a surprisingly high amount of Nader's voters had George Bush as their second option), but I'm much more skeptical about the Libertarian Party. The Libertarian Party's positions on abortion, the military, immigration, prostitution, drugs, and several other things are in direct contrast to the Republican Party's. The Constitution Party would have been a better example.

Granted. The Libertarian Party has positions across the board, so likely to draw more equally form both main parties.

Maybe the American Solidarity Party can make real inroads given their platform has appeal to both conservatives and liberals, but they're still new and probably have a ways to go before they can even get to the level of the Green Party in terms of popularity.

Also granted. But I doubt ANY party can gain any significant position so long as we do not have instant run-off elections in place at all levels.

I don't know if the issue is even first past the post voting. Sure, that strongly favors a two-party system, but doesn't guarantee it. In fact, even among first past the post countries, the US seems abnormally entrenched in its two-party system; see the UK and Canada for other such countries that, while having two parties that dominant discourse, still have other parties that get elected into their national legislature. I suppose someone might say that if one party gets a majority by themselves the number of parties doesn't necessarily matter, but I do know that the UK at least sometimes needs coalitions to form a majority (not sure if Canada has ever had to), as is actually the case right now.

As far as I know, we have two members of the Senate that are NOT Republican or Democrat (Sanders and King). Both caucus with Democrats. In the house, I am pretty sure only Sablan is not affiliated with the two main parties. That's three out of 535 members. Not exactly an overwhelming level of success.

[seer]

Is blacking out fainting, or just falling asleep unusually early?

No it is actually doing things you don't remember. Back in the day we used to play a game called Pass Out. After we decided to go to a local tavern to pick up some pizza. The last thing I remember was walking in to the place. Two hours later I hear a knock on my car window, I look out and there were two cops. My car was running and I was in the back seat using a large pizza as a pillow. I was stopped at a traffic light, right in from of City Hall/Police dept. I had no memory after I walked into the tavern, I had no idea how I got there, and my friends said I had left right after I got my pizza (two hours earlier).

[DesertBerean]

No it is actually doing things you don't remember. Back in the day we used to play a game called Pass Out. After we decided to go to a local tavern to pick up some pizza. The last thing I remember was walking in to the place. Two hours later I hear a knock on my car window, I look out and there were two cops. My car was running and I was in the back seat using a large pizza as a pillow. I was stopped at a traffic light, right in from of City Hall/Police dept. I had no memory after I walked into the tavern, I had no idea how I got there, and my friends said I had left right after I got my pizza (two hours earlier).

Wow, that's scary.

[seer]

Wow, that's scary.

Thankfully there was nothing in the papers about a red 64 Impala Super Sport running anyone over...

[JimL]

I thought liberals were all for ignoring high school and college when it’s their people in power. After all, didn’t Obama admit to getting drunk all the time and doing illegal drugs? So does high school and college count or does it only count when it’s a conservative?

Obama was never accused of sexual assault lilpix, nor, unlike Kavanaugh, did Obama lie about his use of marijuana, and he didn't lie multiple times to Congress while under oath. Last, but not least, unlike Kavanaugh, Obama wasn't being considered for a lifetime seat on the highest court in the land. Keep throwing your stupid against the wall though Lilpix, see if maybe it sticks.

[JimL]

Has there been any more info on Ford's not knowing about the senate offer to fly to her? That would sure seem to reflect very badly on somebody, though I'm not sure who (her lawyers are my first guess, but I don't know enough about it).

The way republicans lie, they take after their liar and chief, there's a good chance that republicans never even offered to fly out to interview Dr. Ford. That's probably the reason she knew nothing about it. Just as well anyway. Had the republicans gone to her, they would have lied about that interview as well, it's what they do. If they really cared about the truth, they could have had the FBI interview her, as well as Kavanaugh, but the White House denied that to happen. So, it's not rocket science, Republicans hold all the cards, and they didn't care if Kavanaugh was a murderer, they were going to push him through regardless. The whole thing was a sham and a political coverup pure and simple

Btw, in the end the republicans tried to make it out to be that the truth or falseness of the accusation by Dr. Ford is what this was all about, that if he wasn't shown to be guilty on that point then he should be confirmed. That's not what it was about at all, that was part of it, but even more important was his behavior at the hearing itself which was self evident and that was disqualifying. Republicans knew that, that's why they had the phoney investigation at the end, to give certain Senators like S. Collins cover to pivot away from Kavanaugh behavior at the hearing and focus on the fact that the phoney investigation came up empty.

[lilpixieofterror]

Obama was never accused of sexual assault lilpix, nor, unlike Kavanaugh, did Obama lie about his use of marijuana, and he didn't lie multiple times to Congress while under oath. Last, but not least, unlike Kavanaugh, Obama wasn't being considered for a lifetime seat on the highest court in the land. Keep throwing your stupid against the wall though Lilpix, see if maybe it sticks.

My dear Jimmy, we know what democrats do when they are accused of sexual assault, the smear the accusers or ignore them and hope they go away. IE what happened to Paula Jones. The thing is Democrats always hold themselves to different standards. They said in 2008 that high school and college foolishness didn’t matter mainly because Obama admitted to several events of high school and college foolishness. They suddenly cared about Kavanaugh’s high school and college foolishness and suddenly sexual assault accusers popped up from the woodwork when nobody was buying their double standards. See Jimmy, if Obama was accused, it likely was buried and will never see the light of day because Democrats only care about sexual assault when it suits their political goals.