Cliven Bundy puts gun in mouth, pulls trigger

[Jedidiah]

Interesting to me is the fact that mostly those who misunderstood what Bundy said are either liberals or were not aware that the reporting was horribly twisted. Of course Bundy probably expected, foolishly, a somewhat honest media.

[Bill the Cat]

I'm still struggling to see a reason to defend his illegal grazing behavior.

[Darth Executor]

I'm still struggling to see a reason to defend his illegal grazing behavior.

Legal evil is still evil.

[Cow Poke]

I'm still struggling to see a reason to defend his illegal grazing behavior.

I don't know that anybody is defending that, are they?

[Darth Executor]

I don't know that anybody is defending that, are they?

I am. The government limited grazing to 150 or so cows under the guise of protecting some turtle but was actually just conniving to remove all the ranchers from the area so Harry Reid can build a Chinese power plant (or something). Since Bundy has a lot more cows than that it would have effectively ruined him, so he stopped paying fees.

[Cow Poke]

I am. The government limited grazing to 150 or so cows under the guise of protecting some turtle but was actually just conniving to remove all the ranchers from the area so Harry Reid can build a Chinese power plant (or something). Since Bundy has a lot more cows than that it would have effectively ruined him, so he stopped paying fees.

I'll do some fact checking on this, but right now, one of my Church Members is in the hospital in critical condition, so I'll be away from the computer for a while.

The logic, however, that you have too many cows to be able to afford to feed them doesn't make a whole lot of sense to THIS rather small-time rancher. When I've had that problem (and a whole lot of other bigger ranchers around me) due to drought, or whatever, the logical thing is to sell off a bunch of the herd.

[Darth Executor]

I'll do some fact checking on this, but right now, one of my Church Members is in the hospital in critical condition, so I'll be away from the computer for a while.

The logic, however, that you have too many cows to be able to afford to feed them doesn't make a whole lot of sense to THIS rather small-time rancher. When I've had that problem (and a whole lot of other bigger ranchers around me) due to drought, or whatever, the logical thing is to sell off a bunch of the herd.

Yes and the workers and his family (IIRC he has 14 kids) should do... what? Sit on welfare, so Harry Reid can add a few more millions to his already fat portfolio?

[Jedidiah]

Bundy may or may not be in the wrong to some degree. This does not excuse the rabid over action on the part of the Feds.

[JimL]

He's an old codger from a whole 'nuther era. Therefore, let's go after him with paramilitary overwhelming force!

Some officer of the law you must have been CP. Bundy lost his battle in court, and has continued now for 20 years to ignore the law and pay the same fees that all other farmers are lawfully paying to the point where he now owes over a million dollars. 20 years CP, thats real government overreach isn't it? Now he brings in anti government insurectionist to train their guns on officers of the law and all you can do is blame the law for attempting to enforce the court order. Just curious CP, as an ex officer of the law, how would you have handle the situation differently?

[KingsGambit]

It's a pretty straightforward Romans 13 issue as far as I see it. Bundy should have obeyed the law after he lost in court.

[Cow Poke]

Some officer of the law you must have been CP.

Bite my shorts, Jimmy.

Bundy lost his battle in court, and has continued now for 20 years to ignore the law and pay the same fees that all other farmers are lawfully paying to the point where he now owes over a million dollars. 20 years CP, thats real government overreach isn't it? Now he brings in anti government insurectionist to train their guns on officers of the law and all you can do is blame the law for attempting to enforce the court order.

Here's what I said, Jimmy....

I'll do some fact checking on this,

That's EXACTLY what I said. On YOUR part, however, you just repeat the talking points of the liberal left loonies' echo chamber.

Just curious CP, as an ex officer of the law, how would you have handle the situation differently?

First of all, I think you got some of your facts backwards, but I can't say for sure, because there's a whole lot of hype coming from both sides. I can guarantee you I would not have come in with overwhelming force if, in fact, I was concerned about the goofy turtles he was supposedly endangering.

This is a little more complex that you're used to dealing with, Jimmy, so perhaps you should let the adults discuss this one.

[Cow Poke]

It's a pretty straightforward Romans 13 issue as far as I see it. Bundy should have obeyed the law after he lost in court.

Does Bundy profess to be a Christian? (I don't know the answer to that)

[seanD]

It's a pretty straightforward Romans 13 issue as far as I see it. Bundy should have obeyed the law after he lost in court.

The problem with citing Romans 13 is that the entire historical foundation of the United States and its founders (which were professed Christians) were in violation of that scripture. I don't know what that would mean though. It's sort of a double standard. How would God view a covenant between two Israelites if that covenant was in direct violation of God's law? It might mean that all the US laws are illegitimate in the eyes of God. I'm not saying that this excuses not paying taxes, but it can get spiritually complicated citing Romans 13 under the circumstances.

[Darth Executor]

The problem with citing Romans 13 is that the entire historical foundation of the United States and its founders (which were professed Christians) were in violation of that scripture. I don't know what that would mean though. It's sort of a double standard. How would God view a covenant between two Israelites if that covenant was in direct violation of God's law? It might mean that all the US laws are illegitimate in the eyes of God. I'm not saying that this excuses not paying taxes, but it can get spiritually complicated citing Romans 13 under the circumstances.

I don't agree. If you can get and keep an independent state then you are the de facto government and it is the imperial power that is in the wrong. The Romans were an overwhelming power, unlike the British. The Jews had no legitimate claim to a state because they did not have the ability to enforce it. Americans could and did.

[KingsGambit]

The problem with citing Romans 13 is that the entire historical foundation of the United States and its founders (which were professed Christians) were in violation of that scripture. I don't know what that would mean though. It's sort of a double standard. How would God view a covenant between two Israelites if that covenant was in direct violation of God's law? It might mean that all the US laws are illegitimate in the eyes of God. I'm not saying that this excuses not paying taxes, but it can get spiritually complicated citing Romans 13 under the circumstances.

I don't see any caveats about the legitimacy of how the government originally came into place. One could argue that almost any government had to originally come into place by force some way or the other.