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Botham Shem Jean

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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    No you don't.
    Libel! Or is it slander ... I keep getting those two messed up.

    Whatevah ... you're wrong, I said!

    Not that I get much choice in the matter.

    It's like perfect hair. Ya just gotta live with it.

    My attention in this part hasn't been on her at all. It was on the forgiveness of the deceased's brother and family.
    Mine was what looked like it might be forgiveness from the judge. And proselytizing under duress and color of governmental authority.

    I asked earlier, does ANYBODY believe this woman deserves to be a cop? The error in this, in my opinion, was hiring her in the first place.
    Is anybody — sorry, I start stuttering when I try to speak in all caps — disagreeing with ya?

    Exactly what I'm saying - the contrast of the whoopdedoo "black lives matter" hollering and theatrics in the hallway vs. the display of true Christian forgiveness in the courtroom. Even some of those big tough policemen were fighting back tears.

    The Jean family has more than earned the right to be heard by their outpouring of love rather than stomp and snort and point fingers and demand.
    I think they earned the right to be heard by being Americans, and more than that right when she popped a cap in another Jean, a guy just trying to enjoy a bowl of ice cream at home. What forgiveness gives them is a moral authority they can capitalize on by getting folks to listen.

    Or that's what I'd like to think could happen.

    Ya lost me on that one. Sometimes I wish you could just talk plain.
    Sometimes I wish I could just think plain. But I can't, so I don't, and sometimes it's too much work, or I'm too busy or pre-occupied to translate back ... speaking o' ... Adrift is owed a response in another thread, and I'm off to pay up.

    Doc, grandpa thinks he's a chicken!

    Well, bring him in, I'll see what I can do.

    Umm, doc ... we need the eggs!


    Don't even tell me a country preacher never heard that one, or didn't use it a couple dozen times on the same audience forgetting they'd told it to them before.

    And they all said, amen.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
      Doc, grandpa thinks he's a chicken!

      Well, bring him in, I'll see what I can do.

      Umm, doc ... we need the eggs!
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • I definitely agree that real healing is more likely to happen organically than from Black Lives Matter crowds shouting outside the courthouse. And I hate to say it, but this verdict might have been the best thing possible toward trying to rebuild relationships between the police and society at large. An acquittal would have perpetuated the widely believed notion that police officers are completely above the law so even though I'm surprised by the verdict, I think it's for the best.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          I definitely agree that real healing is more likely to happen organically than from Black Lives Matter crowds shouting outside the courthouse. And I hate to say it, but this verdict might have been the best thing possible toward trying to rebuild relationships between the police and society at large. An acquittal would have perpetuated the widely believed notion that police officers are completely above the law so even though I'm surprised by the verdict, I think it's for the best.
          It was an amazing process, and, yeah.... I think this has a FAR better chance of turning into something constructive the way it played out.

          I watched the local (Houston 11) news tonight - they covered the yelling and drama in the hall, then they covered the touching moments in the courtroom, but they left out any of the video of Brandt recommending that Guyger accept Christ.

          Here's a link to the WFAA Channel 8 website with a video of Brandt's 'witness impact' statement.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • and here is an account of the Judge's interaction with Amber Guyger, after the Judge had come down from the bench to talk to the Jean family...

            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Here is a better view of the Judge, who briefly left the courtroom, coming back with a Bible, opening it (allegedly to John 3:16) then spends time counseling her, and as they stand, it appears the Judge is praying for her, as well. I love watching the guy in the foreground with his back to us, about a minute in, he turns away and is fighting back tears, and a couple times, wipes his eyes, apparently in amazement at what is transpiring...

              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Botham Shem Jean brother, a true godly man...Don't tell me the Holy Spirit wasn't in that Court Room...

                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                  I hate being the cynic sometimes, but somebody's gotta say it.

                  I've read stories about prisoners who've received mercy for memorizing the Qur'an, with everyone in tears about how it's going to change everything. This is a story about a convicted murderer doing nothing at all, just taking a hug and a bible from a judge.

                  Please tell me this won't affect her sentence.
                  Your (deliberate, I'm sure) equation of apples and kumquats (in the eyes of your conversation partners, at least) engenders doubt that this is one of those times you hate being a cynic. I don't see this as anyone saying it's necessarily going to change everything, just an attempt to get a woman's life straight.
                  I don't believe any amount of training, or praying, or altar calling, could have or would have turned this screw-up into a model cop.
                  You'd doubtless be surprised at the extent conversion can change someone.
                  The one thing I'm keying in on is the emotional dynamic, and I'm liking that. If the call for reform and rebuilding comes from a healing emotion, I'm thinking it's got a better chance to work than a demand for reform from threats of "no justice, no peace." The only way reform is going to work is by boosting the standards for the next class going through the police academy.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                  • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                    High probability that she had been drinking methinks.
                    She had just gotten off of a thirteen hour shift, I think. I'm not sure about the exact number of hours but it was an ungodly long shift. This doesn't absolve her of responsibility, but some of the blame must go to the Dallas PD as well.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jim B. View Post
                      She had just gotten off of a thirteen hour shift, I think. I'm not sure about the exact number of hours but it was an ungodly long shift. This doesn't absolve her of responsibility, but some of the blame must go to the Dallas PD as well.
                      I don't think she was that tired because she had been planning to go to the gym after changing.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        I don't think she was that tired because she had been planning to go to the gym after changing.
                        To be fair, I'm tired after work every day, and yet still plan on going to the gym later (whether I actually do or not is another matter).

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                          To be fair, I'm tired after work every day, and yet still plan on going to the gym later (whether I actually do or not is another matter).
                          She also testified about those specific plans in the context of her not being overly exhausted. Certainly if she felt she was, at minimum, in a state to drive, she could hardly blame her actions on her employer.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            She also testified about those specific plans in the context of her not being overly exhausted. Certainly if she felt she was, at minimum, in a state to drive, she could hardly blame her actions on her employer.
                            I don't believe we can really give much credence to her testimony.

                            The day after the shooting, her story was that she couldn't get her door open, set her stuff () down to focus on unlocking the door, and Botham swung the door open and startled her.
                            That weekend, the story was that she had just finished a 15 hour shift, started to unlock her door, but it was unlocked, she saw a figure in her apartment, and she fired her gun at him.
                            In another story, the door was slightly ajar, she thought she was being robbed, so she fired.
                            Witnesses testify that they heard knocking, then a woman's voice calling "let me in, let me in"... then gunshots.

                            While I hope she takes advantage of the incredibly loving and forgiving counsel she has received, I don't believe she has been very consistent about the events that landed her in prison.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              I don't believe we can really give much credence to her testimony.

                              The day after the shooting, her story was that she couldn't get her door open, set her stuff () down to focus on unlocking the door, and Botham swung the door open and startled her.
                              That weekend, the story was that she had just finished a 15 hour shift, started to unlock her door, but it was unlocked, she saw a figure in her apartment, and she fired her gun at him.
                              In another story, the door was slightly ajar, she thought she was being robbed, so she fired.
                              Witnesses testify that they heard knocking, then a woman's voice calling "let me in, let me in"... then gunshots.

                              While I hope she takes advantage of the incredibly loving and forgiving counsel she has received, I don't believe she has been very consistent about the events that landed her in prison.
                              I agree with all of this. But I think her words still matter in the context of a lawsuit against the police department. I would think her claiming she was not overly exhausted, even if she contradicted herself elsewhere, should factor into what level of liability the PD is held responsible for. We already know they have some responsibility for keeping her employed with such a long disciplinary record.
                              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post


                                Your (deliberate, I'm sure) equation of apples and kumquats (in the eyes of your conversation partners, at least) engenders doubt that this is one of those times you hate being a cynic. I don't see this as anyone saying it's necessarily going to change everything, just an attempt to get a woman's life straight.
                                There's no equivalence here.

                                She accepted a hug, and reluctantly at that. That's nothing at all, and less than nothing in comparison to a prisoner going to the personal, extended, and deliberate effort of memorizing the Qur'an.

                                You'd doubtless be surprised at the extent conversion can change someone.

                                Since you brought it up ...

                                It's clearly something that can cause a judge to lose her wits, openly violating the first amendment with cameras rolling, on live TV, in the courtroom and still in her robes. I shudder to think of standing in front of her if she got wind of my religious beliefs, and can only hope there's legal recourse. This is far beyond the conduct that saw Moore removed from the bench in Alabama.

                                As to this cop, while I've seen religious fervor change a heart before, as most of us have, and I'll even allow it's possible that if she had undergone a conversion like that — an outcome we've no reason to believe is likely here — she might have become a kinder, gentler, less rancidly racist stain on the DPD.

                                But that's all beside the point, because there's no fixing stupid.

                                Comment

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