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Botham Shem Jean

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  • It is pretty much described as "a really good example of a really bad police action".
    In that discussion Cow Poke, I was glad to see at least one conservative decrying it. But it was obvious to me that it was wrong of them to shoot that poor guy.

    What was far more wrong though was that they weren't convicted of any wrongdoing.

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    • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      I can understand Leon being upset about that particular issue because a certain disreputable member of this forum with a history of pretending to be Russian was personally trolling him on that thread
      Ah..... try as I might, I couldn't find justification for that shooting at all.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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      • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        I can understand Leon being upset about that particular issue because a certain disreputable member of this forum with a history of pretending to be Russian was personally trolling him on that thread
        Its not personal to me Kingsgambit. I just think Daniel Shaver's case highlights a lot of injustice, and that Botham Shem's case is shaping up to be another one where the cops get away with it. Though as Cow Poke said the jury is still out, and maybe some justice will still be had.

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        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Ah..... try as I might, I couldn't find justification for that shooting at all.
          As I predicted would happen btw, the shooter of Daniel Shaver has been reinstated as a police officer. Granted it was only so he could enjoy all the pension and retirement benefits, but he kept his badge. They did this secretly in mid 2018 about six months after the trial.

          Think about that.

          The police also kept this secret from the public until very recently.

          https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-...nsion/11306510
          Last edited by Leonhard; 09-30-2019, 04:29 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
            As I predicted would happen btw, the shooter of Daniel Shaver has been reinstated as a police officer. Granted it was only so he could enjoy all the pension and retirement benefits, but he kept his badge.

            Think about that.
            I don't have to "think about that", Leon - it stinks out loud.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Just found time to read this thread and saw this:

              12-05-2018, 04:03 PM:

              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              I still have a feeling there was much more to WHY she wasn't thinking rationally.
              I didn't see it posted in thread, but I'm sure folks have heard the "WHY" by now, nothing any of us would have expected.

              Damn good instincts, nincomcreachah.

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              • Body cam recordings of the responders finally there. I'm honestly surprised they ran in there with guns drawn. And I frankly don't get why Guyger hadn't performed CPR, or done any attempt at rescuing the life of Botham Shem.

                https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/09/24/...-trial-dallas/

                I'd link to the recording of her 911 call, but its mostly her swearing, and occasionally going over to poke at Botham Shem asking him if he's okay.

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                • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                  Body cam recordings of the responders finally there. I'm honestly surprised they ran in there with guns drawn. And I frankly don't get why Guyger hadn't performed CPR, or done any attempt at rescuing the life of Botham Shem.

                  https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/09/24/...-trial-dallas/

                  I'd link to the recording of her 911 call, but its mostly her swearing, and occasionally going over to poke at Botham Shem asking him if he's okay.
                  CPR - on a guy with a chest wound?
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                  • Verdict just in - found guilty.
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                    • Guilty of murder.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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                      • Source: Dallas Jury Finds Former DPD Officer Amber Guyger Guilty Of Murdering Botham Jean


                        A jury in Dallas has reached a decision in the Amber Guyger trial. They found the 31-year-old guilty of murder for the death of Botham Shem Jean.

                        Around 10:30 a.m. more than half a dozen law enforcement officers filed into the courtroom, in anticipation of the verdict.

                        Guyger, a former police officer with the Dallas Police Department, was on trial for the 2018 death of Jean, her neighbor, who she shot in his own apartment. From her initial call to 911 and throughout the trial Guyger claimed she thought she had entered her own apartment and that she opened fire on Jean thinking he was a burglar.


                        Judge Tammy Kemp had given jurors three options: to find Guyger guilty verdict of murder, guilty of manslaughter or not guilty. Jurors began deliberations on Monday but did not reach a decision after deliberating just a few hours.

                        Jurors resumed deliberations Tuesday and the alert on the jury room lit several times during the morning. During one call to the court jurors sent a question asking about definitions of Manslaughter and about the Castle Doctrine — which makes a person’s use of force, even deadly force, reasonable if they are defending their home, car, or business.

                        Around 9:45 a.m. the jury call button lit up again, but it was never announced exactly why they summoned the court. Then, at 10:43 a.m. Judge Kemp took the stand and announced, “We the jury find the defendant, Amber Guyger, guilty of murder as charged in the indictment.”

                        Jean’s sister could be heard sobbing, as his mother raised her hands to the sky.

                        The judge asked defense lawyers if they wanted to have the jury polled and they declined.

                        Guyger sat, weeping, at the defense table.

                        The judge immediately called a recess and announced that court would resume at 1:00 p.m.

                        During the weeklong trial jurors heard tearful testimony from Guyger who said she saw a silhouette at the back of what we now know was Jean’s apartment. “That’s whenever I pulled my gun out.”

                        After firing two shots Guyger testified, “I walked fully inside the apartment. I still had my gun outside, since I didn’t even… at that point I didn’t know if it wasn’t [sic] if he was armed. It wasn’t ‘till that point when I got to the counter area when everything started realizing that I wasn’t even… this wasn’t my apartment.”

                        Defense attorneys told the court the events on September 6 were a “series of horrible mistakes” and reminded them that their client testified, “I was scared he was going to kill me.”

                        When questioned by the prosecution Guyger admitted that she stopped lifesaving aid on Jean twice to send text messages to her partner and former lover Sgt. Martin Rivera. They said she was distracted by the phone calls and sexually explicit text messages she was sending Rivera and missed a number of indicators that she was headed to and entering the wrong apartment.

                        And when prosecutor Jason Hermus asked the former officer, “When you shot at Mr. Jean you knew you were using deadly force against him?” she replied “yes”. When asked if she intended to kill Jean when she shot twice she also said “yes”.

                        After Guyger was found guilty of murder, civil attorneys representing Jean’s family said, “This jury has to make history in America today.”

                        The sentencing phase of the trial will now begin, where testimony is expected from both Jean’s and Guyger’s families.

                        With the sentence of murder Guyger faces between 5 and 99 years in prison.



                        Source

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                        • Tough but just verdict. Presumably, police officers are trained to avoid use of lethal force and her failure to assess options has cost her dearly. Tiredness was definitely a factor though, so impaired judgement, that may be taken into account at sentencing?
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                          • I'm surprised we got a verdict of murder. I had serious doubt she'd get even manslaughter. I'm impressed.

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                            • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              CPR - on a guy with a chest wound?
                              Tape down the wound. Try to stop the bleeding. At least apply *some* first aid of any kind. In the audio recording, he was moaning in pain for several minutes.

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                              • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                                Tough but just verdict. Presumably, police officers are trained to avoid use of lethal force and her failure to assess options has cost her dearly. Tiredness was definitely a factor though, so impaired judgement, that may be taken into account at sentencing?
                                This particular person should never have been a police officer.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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