Originally posted by rogue06
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostNot even remotely the same.
Jim
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Originally posted by oxmixmuddle View PostOk, I'll add 'overly literal' and 'incapable of incorporating the context of a statement' into my list of characters traits for you that may help me tailor my responses to you into something you are capable of comprehending.
You can attempt to spin this however you want, but this uninformed congressman is clearly saying that the commission of a crime is not a prerequisite for impeachment.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostOk, I'll add 'overly literal' and 'incapable of incorporating the context of a statement' into my list of characters traits for you that may help me tailor my responses to you into something you are capable of comprehending.
Jim
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAgain, nice attempt to spin it, but he didn't say, "The president does not have to be indicted for a crime to be impeached," he said, "The president does not have to commit a crime to be impeached."
Jim
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Originally posted by oxmixmuddle View PostNo spin about it. That's just what the situation is. If you can't indict a president, then you can't impeach him for a crime committed in office unless Congress can determine on their own without an indictment he has in fact committed a time. It's really not all that complicated. The only other option is to allow him to be indicted while in office for a crime and then have a trial. And that would not be a very good option.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThe "strenuousness" is due to the excessively hyperbolic reaction from the left and MSM (being redundant there) that takes every incident even those that are tiny molehills and blows them up into Mount Everest-sized "the sky is falling" constitutional crises. It is a response to the madness by trying to put things into perspective, and yes as Brum has noted has pushed people into taking positions they likely would not take
Congratulations.
Not that you are in any way solely responsible but you are certainly a part of it at least here.
You mentioned earlier that for all their faults at least Obama and Bush appealed to our noble or moral nature. But in spite of strong criticism neither have been besieged in the manner Trump has giving him little opportunity to do much else but fight back which is behavior that isn't conducive to such appeals. Whether or not he would do so if things were different will remain unknown in the toxic atmosphere we are in.
And these were things that started to be healed when he won the nomination for president. That was all that was necessary for the change to start. His nomination was "the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal." He needn't lift a finger or do anything for that to start except be there and be nominated. Sort of like he didn't have to do anything to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize but merely be elected.
It's hopeful and symbolic and also hopelessly arrogant. But not what you are saying.
Your interpretation is at the very least the same sort of hysteria you accuse me of, only targeted at Obama.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 08-27-2018, 08:13 AM.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostSorry, you and so many others claim not to like much about Trump, but in one way or another, it seems most of those same people strenuously support every immoral deed he does that I bring criticism of. I'm just not seeing much ambivalence in your position. You so far have always taken a position that at the very least provides Trump cover, but often which out and out justifies his immoral and/or despicable behavior.
Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
At this point I'm beginning to change my mind about Trump due to the insane reactions he's getting which are very often over nothing, or outright lies about him.
Congratulations.
Not that you are in any way solely responsible but you are certainly a part of it at least here.
You mentioned earlier that for all their faults at least Obama and Bush appealed to our noble or moral nature. But in spite of strong criticism neither have been besieged in the manner Trump has giving him little opportunity to do much else but fight back which is behavior that isn't conducive to such appeals. Whether or not he would do so if things were different will remain unknown in the toxic atmosphere we are in.
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostYes. What are two of the major effects of Global warming:
Rising oceans
Loss of species
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostSorry, you and so many others claim not to like much about Trump, but in one way or another, it seems most of those same people strenuously support every immoral deed he does that I bring criticism of. I'm just not seeing much ambivalence in your position.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostYou have misunderstood several of my statements.
1) The 'bewitchment' statement refers to a large part of the evangelical community. It includes some posters here but was not aimed at you specifically. Many evangelical leaders have put their lot in with Trump in various ways. Some have tried to justify or defend his actions. Many local evangelicals I know see Trump as a sort of savior though their Christian Theology would never allow themselves to call a man by that name directly.
The point of that statement you completely missed was this: With Bill, or Hillary, or Obama, we could count on people of Christian Faith being consistent with the teachings of the faith as regards whether they praised or criticised their actions. We did not have people of devout Christian faith ignoring gross violations of moral integrity for the sake of some short term material gain. Indeed, a common mantra in circles of faith during the Lewinsky scandal was 'character matters' - the idea that moral lapses in private predict moral lapses on a grander or more public scale, while many on the support Bill Clinton side were claiming that his character as regards Monica didn't matter, they were saying look at what he's doing politically, for the country. With Trump that is no longer true. Now it is the evangelical Christian community that is claiming character DOESN'T matter and just look at what he is doing politically.
It is blatant hypocrisy. And it matters to me because it is the Christian community doing it. And why should it matter if it is the Christian community instead of just some left leaning political talking heads? Because we are Ambassadors for Christ, not this world. And we have a standard to uphold because we bring the message of salvation to the world. That message can't be compromised for any temporal or materialistic gain.
It boggles my mind that so many I'm talking with keep using some sort of relative moral thinking about this as if its all the same, the Christians and non-Christians alike play by the same rules. IT is NOT. We are called OUT of the world, and we have a different and much higher set of standards we are to live by. As an example, we are to love our enemies. Did not Christ call attention to the fact the 'even the gentiles' love their friends. What reward is there for doing the same? No, we are called to love not just our friends but our enemies. And in that and in so many other ways a Christian is called NOT to base how they live their lives on how 'everybody else' does it.
We are called NOT to live in a symmetric moral tit for tat where the world defines the behavior. Character STILL matters. What doesn't matter is whether or not the offending party is someone we voted for vs someone we voted against.
2) Trump is worse than his predecessors.
I will stand by that.
At the very least he is worse in the quantity if not the quality. He as had multiple affairs - not one or two. He lies openly and constantly, not just when he feels he must to accomplish some critical goal.
But consider also that he has lowered the level of public discourse on all issues. He rarely if ever appeals to our noble or moral nature in anything he does. Obama appealed to that nobility often. As did George Bush and Reagan. Even Bill Clinton did that. But no, Trump appeals only to what is the bottom of the barrel. Worse, Trump often displays not just poor character qualities but grossly immoral character qualities. Consider that Trump openly demeans even those who work for him*.
So in that, not only does Trump eschew 'love your enemies', not only does he eschew 'and eye for an eye', he openly does not even love those that ARE his friends. He loves only his worshipers.
Trump exceeds all before him in his disrespect for the law. In his disrespect for Justice, his disrespect for the law enforcement institutions of this country, and in his open disrespect for all people not praising him at the current moment. He is openly demeaning of those institutions, of our legal system anytime their proper operation hinders him or his goals.
And he exceeds his predecessors in his open rallying of his supporters against the free press. We NEED the free press. Trump doesn't understand that or doesn't care, in a way that exceeds all his predecessors. And most of you supporting him are blind to the danger of that.
Keep those pearls clutched close to your chest while yelling about principles as you let those that hate you and everything you stand for gain more and more power as you become less and less important to them.Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 08-26-2018, 11:44 PM.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI really see very little "unequivocal support"
He [Obama] described his nomination as being "the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."
Rising oceans
Loss of species
It's obvious rogue06. To take it any other way is ridiculous. OTOH, it is extremely presumptuous to believe that one man's presidency can have that much influence on Global Warming, so that statement is indeed absurd. But to say he's proclaiming himself some sort of god in that statement is just silly.
And notice, I'm only taking on your interpretation of the one statement. The rest of the stuff you posted I agree with you as being absurd and ridiculous, and something Obama should have strenuously resisted.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 08-26-2018, 07:31 PM.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostRougue, you know because I have stated over and over again I speak not of voting for Trump as the lessor of two evils, but of unequivocal support even in the face of repeated and eqregious immoral acts.
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThe statement was clearly about global warming and his administration's commitment to making the changes necessary to do something about it. It is definatly over the top in optimism as to what they could accomplish, but your take on it is frankly absurd.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostYou know I'm thinking if Trump wanted Hillary in jail, maybe he should just have hired her?
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostSimply voting for the lesser of two evils and then pointing out the hysterical over-the-top and sometimes outright scurrilous charges leveled against him is hardly equivalent to the worshipful adulation where he was literally called god, the Messiah and better than Jesus simply cannot be equated at any level.
[Quote]
Um, no. He was proclaiming how he was "absolutely certain that generations from now" that "this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal." That wasn't about what he planned to do in the future but what was taking place at this moment. [Quote]
The statement was clearly about global warming and his administration's commitment to making the changes necessary to do something about it. It is definatly over the top in optimism as to what they could accomplish, but your take on it is frankly absurd.
Not only did he not make any move to stop it, he ate it up. He reveled in it.
Jim
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