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Mike Licona lecture questioned at college

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  • Mike Licona lecture questioned at college

    It seems some people do not think that university funds can be used for this purpose. When I was in college, my university paid to have Richard Dawkins speak on The God Delusion, and I don't remember anybody protesting.

    http://www.kearneyhub.com/news/local...a4bcf887a.html
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  • #2
    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    It seems some people do not think that university funds can be used for this purpose. When I was in college, my university paid to have Richard Dawkins speak on The God Delusion, and I don't remember anybody protesting.

    http://www.kearneyhub.com/news/local...a4bcf887a.html
    Erm, universities exist for this kind of thing, dumbasses.

    Comment


    • #3
      The way I see it, controversy here will probably just increase the attendance of the lecture.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #4
        I bet for all their bluster, when it comes down to it in the Q&A, they'll be the ones offering the most infantile objections.

        Comment


        • #5
          I came into this thinking it was just a free speech matter, but two related points in the article stand out to me: The talk violates the Board of Regents policy and the lecturer is being paid through student tuition.

          Comment


          • #6
            It only violates the board if you're a fundamentalist atheistard who thinks any academic lecture that supports a religious truth is a "religious event".

            The second point is particularly laughable considering how much money colleges spend on socially liberal garbage.
            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
              I came into this thinking it was just a free speech matter, but two related points in the article stand out to me: The talk violates the Board of Regents policy and the lecturer is being paid through student tuition.
              Would you have any issues with it if Richard Dawkins was coming to speak on the God Delusion under the same terms (to use KG's example)
              "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
              -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

              Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
              1 Corinthians 16:13

              "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
              -Ben Witherington III

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                It only violates the board if you're a fundamentalist atheistard who thinks any academic lecture that supports a religious truth is a "religious event".

                The second point is particularly laughable considering how much money colleges spend on socially liberal garbage.
                The hilarious part is, "atheist-tards" 'still' don't understand the 1st Amendment. All it says is that the 'federal government' can't make any laws establishing or respecting religion. Religious events are not mandated laws.
                Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

                -Thomas Aquinas

                I love to travel, But hate to arrive.

                -Hernando Cortez

                What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?

                -Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm not going to automatically say that the objection is totally without merit... after all, universities have such bylaws. But I'm going to say that I doubt they apply. I imagine the point is that speakers shouldn't be brought in just for evangelism. Scholars take positions on issues. Political science professors are often very outspoken on politics; engineering professors are often outspoken on political issues involving scientific issues; religious studies professors (I don't know about this college but my public university had a Religious Studies department, and supposedly none of its professors were theists...) are obviously not going to be completely neutral on religious issues, as pure neutrality there is impossible. Apparently they're saying the study of religious movements is okay but that miracles cannot be considered... so it seems to me that the real issue here is limiting study to the confines that they want (no miracles). The thing is that Licona's book extensively addresses/defends his right to consider miracles as a historian, and I think he makes a pretty good argument that miracles can be considered in a religiously charged context.

                  And really people, grow up. The whole "x-tard" thing is childish.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                    Would you have any issues with it if Richard Dawkins was coming to speak on the God Delusion under the same terms (to use KG's example)
                    Yes. He's not a philosopher, and philosophy is where that kind of talk belongs, so I don't think it would have any scholastic value.

                    My main objection comes from the money being taken from tuition. Let's say we have an atheist club and a Christian club on a campus, and the each want to bring in a person to speak. I would have no problem with that money coming from funds allotted to each club, donations, or a non-profit.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Manwë Súlimo View Post
                      Erm, universities exist for this kind of thing, dumbasses.
                      This is not an appropriate teaching subject for a University. It may be suitable for student debates where both sides of an argument are presented. Universities are places where Descartes rules. If the University values its reputation it will keep supernaturalism out.

                      It is proper to discuss the Bible as literature in Universities but as soon as you claim that the literature is narrating real historical events of a supernatural nature (e.g. visions of tablecloths lowered from heaven) you have crossed a line and you deserve to be mocked for your efforts. Supernaturalism belongs in Churches, not Universities.
                      Last edited by firstfloor; 04-23-2014, 03:30 AM.
                      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                      “not all there” - you know who you are

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Glad to see that you assume a truth claim full stop without even entertaining the idea that a debate could be had (especially funny considering that the vast majority of human beings throughout all time have been theists).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                          This is not an appropriate teaching subject for a University. It may be suitable for student debates where both sides of an argument are presented. Universities are places where Descartes rules. If the University values its reputation it will keep supernaturalism out.

                          It is proper to discuss the Bible as literature in Universities but as soon as you claim that the literature is narrating real historical events of a supernatural nature (e.g. visions of tablecloths lowered from heaven) you have crossed a line and you deserve to be mocked for your efforts. Supernaturalism belongs in Churches, not Universities.
                          If the supernatural event is a real historical event then it is an appropriate subject.
                          Mike Licona is presenting evidence demonstrating that it was a real historical event.

                          It is telling that you rule out the supernatural from being real historical events as a priori, without being willing to consider the evidence.
                          "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
                          -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

                          Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                          1 Corinthians 16:13

                          "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                          -Ben Witherington III

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                            Yes. He's not a philosopher, and philosophy is where that kind of talk belongs, so I don't think it would have any scholastic value.
                            Fair enough

                            Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                            My main objection comes from the money being taken from tuition. Let's say we have an atheist club and a Christian club on a campus, and the each want to bring in a person to speak. I would have no problem with that money coming from funds allotted to each club, donations, or a non-profit.
                            But if Mike Licona is presenting evidence that the Resurrection was a valid historical event then it is not just a religious discussion.
                            "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
                            -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

                            Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                            1 Corinthians 16:13

                            "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                            -Ben Witherington III

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Manwë Súlimo View Post
                              Glad to see that you assume a truth claim full stop without even entertaining the idea that a debate could be had (especially funny considering that the vast majority of human beings throughout all time have been theists).
                              Truth, spiritual or otherwise is not the issue. He claims to be an historian and he is giving a lecture. I don’t think it is a debate, is it? What he is really doing is preaching and he should do it in a seminary or a church, not at a University. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
                              “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                              “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                              “not all there” - you know who you are

                              Comment

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