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Sterilizations in California state prisons

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  • Sterilizations in California state prisons

    Of course, they're "voluntary"...

    http://www.mrconservative.com/2014/0...in-california/

    ETA: Here's an actual newspaper article, and apparently they stopped doing it a few years ago.

    http://www.npr.org/2013/09/20/219366...sterilizations
    Last edited by KingsGambit; 04-18-2014, 04:42 PM.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  • #2
    M'caid offers women the option of a tubal during delivery if they like. The question of consent needs to be addressed but since tubals are reversible, the case for eugenics is seriously overblown.

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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    • #3
      I think the question of consent is inseparable. I have no doubt the threat of retaliation (perceived at least) or of a withholding of medical treatment makes this far from a voluntary procedure, and given how poor most of them are probably going to be, a medical reversal probably wouldn't be realistic in most cases.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #4
        If the government has the obligation to step in and help you out during hard times then it also has implicit permission to mitigate some of the damage you do. That can and should include sterilization if you keep having kids that can't be raised in a decent environment. Too many people, from the lowest of the poor to the wealthiest of bankers demand the government help them when they're down and then stay out of their lives when they engage in dangerous, reckless behavior that someone else has to pick up after. I don't think people should have both, and more importantly, I don't think any society is sustainable if people do have both.
        "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

        There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

        Comment


        • #5
          IOW, you're saying that welfare junkies and the mega-rich should be sterilized, handing the next generation over to the middle class and other people who don't want the government breathing down their neck.

          Whilst I want the next generation to not be handed over to government junkies/worshipers, I am opposed to doing so via sterilizing said people. If anything else, the people doing the sterilization cannot be trusted, and will start performing sterilizations of good people.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Just Some Dude View Post
            IOW, you're saying that welfare junkies and the mega-rich should be sterilized, handing the next generation over to the middle class and other people who don't want the government breathing down their neck.
            No, I'm saying people who can't take care of their kids should be sterilized. I'm saying other people (like welfare junkies and the mega-rich) should not be granted reprieve from their situations unconditionally.
            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
              No, I'm saying people who can't take care of their kids should be sterilized. I'm saying other people (like welfare junkies and the mega-rich) should not be granted reprieve from their situations unconditionally.
              What's your specific criteria for sterilization?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                I think the question of consent is inseparable. I have no doubt the threat of retaliation (perceived at least) or of a withholding of medical treatment makes this far from a voluntary procedure, and given how poor most of them are probably going to be, a medical reversal probably wouldn't be realistic in most cases.
                Actually, it's expensive but not hideously so - and since insurance often treats it as 'voluntary' doctors have done a decent job of keeping the cost down - and many offer payment plans (yes, really). I'm not saying that consent shouldn't be investigated - far from it - but only the truly indigent couldn't get a reversal if they really wanted it. That ISN'T a justification but it does bring the eugenics claim into question.

                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                  What's your specific criteria for sterilization?

                  You probably should be further away from him... a few thousand more miles, at least.



                  Just sayin'...











































































                  Kidding, just kidding...

                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Just Some Dude View Post
                    IOW, you're saying that welfare junkies and the mega-rich should be sterilized, handing the next generation over to the middle class and other people who don't want the government breathing down their neck.

                    Whilst I want the next generation to not be handed over to government junkies/worshipers, I am opposed to doing so via sterilizing said people. If anything else, the people doing the sterilization cannot be trusted, and will start performing sterilizations of good people.
                    Anders Brevik, for example, performed a late sterilization of the children of Norway's government junkies.

                    While it was heartening to see someone finally killing Communists instead of the latest fascist stand-in, I'm generally of the mind that if someone does commit force and fraud against the state or the people, that he (or her) and not his children should be executed.

                    Not imprisoned at public expense.

                    Not state-rehabilitated, which is in practice anything but.

                    Not punished in indeterminate ways via general or specific secret societies and hate campaigns.

                    Executed. Whether poor or rich, this penalty is the only one that can be applied equally to all people in all stations of life. Whether it's the rapacity and lawlessness of a Mark Zuckerberg or a Marquese Zon'Tavious, the principles of both are too clearly aligned at a fundamentally parasitic level to be left alive.Though perhaps, we could still compromise on the financial front:

                    Here is my suggestion as to what economic posture conservatives should assume:

                    Dissolve the Lefts barbell on both ends. Punish the rich and their client-class eaters. A cunning Republican (I mean this, of course, hypothetically) would very publicly offer a grand compromise that truly compromises his enemies: Punitive, confiscatory, outrageous taxation on very high incomes and assets. This combined with deep cuts into the sinew of the the welfare spectrum, including elimination of the earned income tax credit and a severe reduction in dysgenic breeding inducements.

                    Perhaps sotto voce, hed state: Well offer cuts to your constituents in exchange for higher taxes on your sponsors. Its simply prudent fiscal discipline with a little help from the wealthiest Americans. Its a shared sacrifice. But thats what makes America so great.
                    Given what Bryan Singer's been exposing lately, I'd start with following Glenn Reynolds' advice and repealing the Hollywood tax cuts.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                      What's your specific criteria for sterilization?
                      Mandatory for child abuse/negligence.
                      Possible sterilization if you keep having kids but can't personally afford to raise them, though I don't have a strict limit in mind on that one.
                      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                        Mandatory for child abuse/negligence.
                        Possible sterilization if you keep having kids but can't personally afford to raise them, though I don't have a strict limit in mind on that one.
                        And you trust government to make that determination? You trust a bureaucratic worker to always rightly determine what constitutes child abuse/negligence, even in the most mild situations?
                        "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seanD View Post
                          And you trust government to make that determination? You trust a bureaucratic worker to always rightly determine what constitutes child abuse/negligence, even in the most mild situations?
                          "Government" is such a broad word encompassing so many different types of entities (nevermind the actual entities within those types) that asking me if I "trust government" is about as stupid as asking me if I "trust atoms" not to bust my head open if some fall on my head.
                          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                            "Government" is such a broad word encompassing so many different types of entities (nevermind the actual entities within those types) that asking me if I "trust government" is about as stupid as asking me if I "trust atoms" not to bust my head open if some fall on my head.
                            Then I'll be specific. Would trust a government funded organization like say Planned Parenthood or ACORN to always rightly determine what constitutes child abuse/negligence, even in the most mild situations?
                            "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seanD View Post
                              Then I'll be specific. Would trust a government funded organization like say Planned Parenthood or ACORN to always rightly determine what constitutes child abuse/negligence, even in the most mild situations?
                              Of course not, but the "government funded" part isn't why I wouldn't trust them.
                              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                              Comment

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