Ireland legalizes the killing of the unborn

[Cow Poke]

has already repeatedly disabused you of this nonsense. There is still a great deal of support for permitting it for legitimately extreme circumstances in spite of many souring on the notion after being hoodwinked by the emotional/mental damage aspect that turned out to be code words for abortion on demand.

And even you should realize that if the SBC resolution "supported looser abortion policies" then that means prior to that they didn't support it which blows an ocean liner-size hole through this fantasy that it is only in the past few decades that they support tightening the restrictions.

I'll show him one more time, though he'll still be just as pigheaded as ever...

1971 Southern Baptist Resolution on Abortion

WHEREAS, Christians in the American society today are faced with difficult decisions about abortion; and

WHEREAS, Some advocate that there be no abortion legislation, thus making the decision a purely private matter between a woman and her doctor; and

WHEREAS, Others advocate no legal abortion, or would permit abortion only if the life of the mother is threatened;

Therefore, be it RESOLVED, that this Convention express the belief that society has a responsibility to affirm through the laws of the state a high view of the sanctity of human life, including fetal life, in order to protect those who cannot protect themselves; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we call upon Southern Baptists to work for legislation that will allow the possibility of abortion under such conditions as rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity, and carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental, and physical health of the mother

The actions of the Southern Baptist Convention in Annual Meeting trump anything any individual preacher or editor says.

[Tassman]

CP has already repeatedly disabused you of this nonsense. There is still a great deal of support for permitting it for legitimately extreme circumstances in spite of many souring on the notion after being hoodwinked by the emotional/mental damage aspect that turned out to be code words for abortion on demand]

Why not abortion on demand! Surely that in itself indicates "emotional/mental damage" problems that warrant the pregnancy not proceeding..

And even you should realize that if the SBC resolution "supported looser abortion policies" then that means prior to that they didn't support it which blows an ocean liner-size hole through this fantasy that it is only in the past few decades that they support tightening the restrictions.

They didn't support it prior to that. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, evangelical Christians widely believed the Bible says life begins at birth...as do the the Jews traditionally believe...and supported looser abortion policies

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonat...b_2072716.html

[Sparko]

I've ALREADY quoted you one, you knucklehead, multiple times at this point.

Biology for Dummies:
"the cell is the smallest part of the organism that retains characteristics of the entire organism. For example, a cell can take in fuel, convert it to energy, and eliminate wastes, just like the organism as a whole can... Therefore, cells not only make up living things; they are living things."

Individual cells are organisms. Combined together they make up other organisms.

Single cells CAN be an organism, and an organism can consist of a single cell, but a cell is not equal to an organism. In a multi-celled organism, each cell is not an organism. It can't live long on it's own, it is specialized and supported by exterior systems and works in conjunction with those exterior system to perform an overall function, it even shares the same dna with the rest of the actual organism. I suspect you know all this and are just trolling at this point.

[Sparko]

There is no functioning brain or brain pattern before approx week 21 at the earliest, i.e. near the end of the second trimester.

you are just repeating yourself.

No, the brain pattern IS the human person. When it goes you go and before it comes on, there IS no you.

My computer is the box including the software. Whether it is turned on or not. A human being is the entire organism at any point in its development. Whether or not its software is installed.

When I was building my computer, the parts that I had assembled at any given point in time was "my computer"
"Sparko how is your computer coming?"
"Fine, it is nearly ready for testing"

It was always my computer, even when I didn't have the hard drive installed yet.

[Sparko]

Problem solved then. No need for abortion. Just extract the unwanted fertilised egg, stick it in a hospitable environment and let it fend for itself self-sustain.

So if I lock you in a closet, kept at a comfortable temperature, but no food or water, then I can claim you are not a human being too because you will die in a few days.

[Cow Poke]

Why not abortion on demand! Surely that in itself indicates "emotional/mental damage" problems that warrant the pregnancy not proceeding..

Not to anybody with more than two brain cells.

Perhaps the resolution anticipated this kind of jackassery, because it included the phrase, "and carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental, and physical health of the mother".

They didn't support it prior to that.

Southern Baptists were wrong about racism, too - fortunately, they corrected both positions.

[carpedm9587]

So if I lock you in a closet, kept at a comfortable temperature, but no food or water, then I can claim you are not a human being too because you will die in a few days.

This does not appear to be an apples/oranges comparison. The fetus IS in a dependent position - the adult human is not. No one "locked" the fetus in this position - it is it's natural state. It is not the natural state of an adult to be "locked into a closet."

I have to admit that the entire "self-sustaining" argument related to life-forms and organisms makes no sense with relation to the zygote or fetus. It is demonstrably NOT self-sustaining. The argument for it being an individualized human is, IMO, strong when taken from the perspective of its unique DNA and its potential for development to individualization.

[Cow Poke]

...No one "locked" the fetus in this position - it is it's natural state.

Naw, it hasn't always been there - it got there because - in most cases - a man and a woman committed an act that "locked" it there, and abortion rips it out of this "natural state".

[kiwimac]

Maybe fewer women will now die.

[Tassman]

Not to anybody with more than two brain cells.

This is what passes for debate for CP, as many have commented.

Perhaps the resolution anticipated this kind of jackassery, because it included the phrase, "and carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental, and physical health of the mother".

Abortion is not something undertaken thoughtlessly by women. Most make decisions about their pregnancies in the midst of complex life circumstances. Likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental, and physical health of the mother" is something to taken seriously, not sneeringly dismissed as an excuse for "abortion on demand".

Southern Baptists were wrong about racism, too - fortunately, they corrected both positions.

The Southern Baptist Convention was founded in 1845 in the Southern United States for the very purpose of maintaining slavery. It didn’t acknowledge they were wrong about it until Aug 28, 2009. That’s a long time (164 years) to be wrong. Similarly, abortion was not an issue for the Southern Baptists until 45 years ago, that’s an awful lot of “murdered innocent babies” over that time-span...to use your colourful turn of phrase.

Originally Posted by carpedm9587
...No one "locked" the fetus in this position - it is it's natural state.
Naw, it hasn't always been there - it got there because - in most cases - a man and a woman committed an act that "locked" it there, and abortion rips it out of this "natural state".

“Committed an act”, you mean as in committing a crime? Less judgemental people refer to it as “intercourse”. And “ripped out of its natural state”? Oh dear. This is what the Southern Baptists were doing for 130 years.

[rogue06]

This is what passes for debate for CP, as many have commented.

I've run across too many that regarded it as just another form of birth control.

[Roy]

So if I lock you in a closet, kept at a comfortable temperature, but no food or water, then I can claim you are not a human being too because you will die in a few days.

1) Where did I say a fertilised ovum wasn't a human being? I've definitely stated it is a human organism.

2) If a "hospitable environment" doesn't include food and water, then a fertilised ovum won't survive for long there either, and your point doesn't have the impact you might think. In effect, you're agreeing with me that MM's position is ridiculous.

[Roy]

Naw, it hasn't always been there - it got there because - in most cases - a man and a woman committed an act that "locked" it there, and abortion rips it out of this "natural state".

So? According to MM, it will thrive anyway, even if removed from the mother. All you need to do is place it in a "hospitable environment". And according to Sparko, you don't even need to provide any nourishment since an environment can be "hospitable" even if it doesn't contain food or water. Just drop the fertilised ovum in a box, and it will self-sustain.

Please disembark the moron-go-round.

[Tassman]

I've run across too many that regarded it as just another form of birth control.

Well, that's the prevailing narrative among many Evangelicals, but I find it hard to believe having seen the distress of many women in a clinical setting at having little alternative because of their complex life circumstances. I think you are underestimating women and their seriousness and sense of responsibility when confronted with such a choice. .

[Cerebrum123]

Maybe fewer women will now die.

Likely the opposite given that abortion tends to target females more often.