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Marlon Bundo

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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    The point I think is that they are not the same thing. Ethics are codes of conduct, laws imposed externally, they can be, but they are not necessarily synonomous with morals which are personal and may or may not be in agreement with ethical codes of conduct. Morally we can personally be in disagreement with religious or corporate codes of conduct.
    While I have found support for the terms being use din that way, I also found significant support for the terms being used synonymously. As best I can tell, in casual conversation and light-weight articles, they are often used synonymously. In more serious philosophical articles or debates, they tend to be used as you have described.

    Makes it yet another example of a place where we need to make sure we know how the other is using the terms if we want to successfully communicate.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • And the saga continues...

      I also just checked Amazon's listings. The Oliver book remains at #1. The Pence book has dropped to #77.

      It's not an official poll...but I have to believe it is yet another data point about the supportive energy now being directed to the LGBTQ community.
      Last edited by carpedm9587; 03-31-2018, 01:00 PM.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        And the saga continues...

        I also just checked Amazon's listings. The Oliver book remains at #1. The Pence book has dropped to #77.

        It's not an official poll...but I have to believe it is yet another data point about the supportive energy now being directed to the LGBTQ community.

        How many of those things did you buy again? Are you actually dumb enough (you AREN'T) to believe you're the only multiple copy buyer? Are you so incredibly unfamiliar with statistics that you can say that with a straight face or did you just forget the sarcasm tags?

        It's not a data point for anything - you've got no idea how the distribution actually looks - and every reason to believe that the effect is artificial (unless you are actually silly enough to not realize that a major media outlet has an advantage here). Without the actual distribution, your 'analysis' is just a political 'hurray for our side'.

        Weren't you trying for meaningful dialogue? Do you really think this kind of cheap jab will get you there?

        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          How many of those things did you buy again?
          Five

          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          Are you actually dumb enough (you AREN'T) to believe you're the only multiple copy buyer?
          Do you have evidence that there are no multiple-copy buyers of the Pence book, or that they are disproportionate to multiple copy buyers of the Oliver book??

          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          Are you so incredibly unfamiliar with statistics that you can say that with a straight face or did you just forget the sarcasm tags?
          You did see the place where I said it was "not an official poll," right? Still - 77th place vs. 1? I don'think it is likely that is a function ONLY of multiple copy buyers.

          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          It's not a data point for anything - you've got no idea how the distribution actually looks - and every reason to believe that the effect is artificial (unless you are actually silly enough to not realize that a major media outlet has an advantage here). Without the actual distribution, your 'analysis' is just a political 'hurray for our side'.
          Of COURSE it's a "hurray for our side" post. I think treatment of the LGBTQ community by the right is abhorent. I will obviously cheer anything that supports them.

          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          Weren't you trying for meaningful dialogue? Do you really think this kind of cheap jab will get you there?
          Umm.. yes - meaningful dialogue. Umm...no...on "cheap jab." Where exactly did I say anything against anyone? The article talks about someone who bought copies of the book for every school in Indiana. My post was about the relative rankings of the books, and my happiness that there is more turnout for the LGBTQ community than against.

          So where exactly was the jab...?
          Last edited by carpedm9587; 03-31-2018, 02:33 PM.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            Five
            And how likely is it that someone would order five books to give to kids to let them see a day in the life of a VP? Not nearly so likely as someone buying a book to spread their political POV, I'd wager - which was why you were only planning on buying one of the Pence books, right?



            Do you have evidence that there are no multiple-copy buyers of the Pence book, or that they are disproportionate to multiple copy buyers of the Oliver book??
            Irrelevant - this is something you need a distribution for BEFORE drawing a conclusion one way or the other - I can't draw sound conclusions for the same reason that you can't - the distribution is unknown.



            You did see the place where I said it was "not an official poll," right? Still - 77th place vs. 1? I don'think it is likely that is a function ONLY of multiple copy buyers.
            I also saw the place where you drew a conclusion that lacks any merit - and FYI, it's NOT a poll.



            Of COURSE it's a "hurray for our side" post. I think treatment of the LGBTQ community by the right is abhorent. I will obviously cheer anything that supports them.
            Whether or not it's rational - fair enough, everyone does that some time.


            Umm.. yes - meaningful dialogue. Umm...no...on "cheap jab." Where exactly did I say anything against anyone? The article talks about someone who bought copies of the book for every school in Indiana. My post was about the relative rankings of the books, and my happiness that there is more turnout for the LGBTQ community than against.

            So where exactly was the jab...?
            And here is where it costs you - you can't be a cheer leader and have a dialogue - it doesn't work that way. And yes, there is a difference between voicing a dissenting opinion and cheering on your team - the former can be done in a meaningful dialogue - the latter is just a poke in the eye to the other side - which you should already realize.

            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              And how likely is it that someone would order five books to give to kids to let them see a day in the life of a VP? Not nearly so likely as someone buying a book to spread their political POV, I'd wager - which was why you were only planning on buying one of the Pence books, right?
              I bought the five to support both aspects of the cause: proceeds to charity, and the message of accepting the LGBTQ community. If we are going to get past this form of bigotry, it will probably be because the next generation takes us there. I bought the Pence book in honor of Ms. Pence - who had the grace to do exactly the same thing.

              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              Irrelevant - this is something you need a distribution for BEFORE drawing a conclusion one way or the other - I can't draw sound conclusions for the same reason that you can't - the distribution is unknown.
              You are correct - it is unknown. However, it does seem to me highly likely that a book in 1st place is seeing a distribution well above a book in 77th (79th as of this morning) place.

              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              I also saw the place where you drew a conclusion that lacks any merit - and FYI, it's NOT a poll.
              We didagree that it lacks merit, and I think I said that (about the poll)...

              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              Whether or not it's rational - fair enough, everyone does that some time.
              I'm not sure why cheering that a book I support, which conveys a message I find important, and which is outselling anything else on Amazon is "not rational."

              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              And here is where it costs you - you can't be a cheer leader and have a dialogue - it doesn't work that way. And yes, there is a difference between voicing a dissenting opinion and cheering on your team - the former can be done in a meaningful dialogue - the latter is just a poke in the eye to the other side - which you should already realize.
              Teal, if this is the way you function, so be it. It's actually not the way I function. I have gone to many games where I cheered on my team. Celebrating a 21-7 football win is celebrating the performance of my team. Few people I know of would say, "Awesome game - we scored 21 points!" The response would almost always be, "so what did the other team score? Did you win?" So we typically say "Awesome game - we won 21-7!" If the opposing team decides to be offended, then perhaps they should re-examine the thickness of their skin? Likewise, the Pence book is about a man with a public, stated issue against the LGBTQ community and he is even proud of it. The Oliver book was produced in protest of that position. That the score is currently 1 to 79 is something I choose to celebrate. It is another small data point in the list of evidence that support for the LGBTQ community is growing, and there remains significant energy on the left. It also means a lot of children are going to be hearing a message I consider important.

              Now if there is additional dialogue you want to engage in, by all means let's engage in that dialogue. What was it you wanted to say?
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment

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