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Bundy vs federal government

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  • Bundy vs federal government

    I'm always interested in stories I believe can spark the inevtiable revolution that's going to come to America at some point as it moves further away from the constitution and descends deeper and deeper into a police state. I'm not saying this is definitely one of those situations, just that it has a potential to spark the inevitable because it seems to be getting pretty heated...

    Two of Nevada’s top elected leaders are riding to the rescue of a rancher whose decades-long range war with the federal government has reached a boiling point in recent days.

    The federal Bureau of Land Management has surrounded the Clark County ranch of Cliven Bundy with armed officers, helicopters and four-wheel drive vehicles. Last week, they began seizing cattle found grazing on adjacent federal lands in violation of a law meant to protect an endangered desert tortoise.

    Both Gov. Brian Sandoval and Sen. Dean Heller have condemned the BLS for what they characterize as heavy-handed actions involving Bundy and other Silver State residents.

    “No cow justifies the atmosphere of intimidation which currently exists nor the limitation of constitutional rights that are sacred to all Nevadans,” Sandoval, a Republican, said. “The BLM needs to reconsider its approach to this matter and act accordingly.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...-cliven-bundy/
    According to this source, armed militias from other states are getting involved...

    http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-new...evada_04102014

    I don't know how accurate that information is since it's from a site that has penchant for sensationalism when it comes to these subjects. But if that's true, this could get pretty ugly.

    I know what opinions I'll hear from liberals, but it will be interesting to hear the opinions of conservatives. Should Bundy give in to government intimidation or should they hold their ground? What would you do as a conservative?
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

  • #2
    Originally posted by seanD View Post

    According to this source, armed militias from other states are getting involved...
    It's about time...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by seanD
      I'm always interested in stories I believe can spark the inevtiable revolution
      No.

      that's going to come to America at some point as it moves further away from the constitution and descends deeper and deeper into a police state.
      No, dude. There were two great books on the dystopia, and Brave New World is the one that gets deplorably unread because it hit the right predictions. However, Brave New World didn't factor in what would happen if Mustapha Mond just didn't care anymore:

      Originally posted by The Anti-Gnostic
      First, I'm not sure how or why K-selected net producers will decide to keep working 40 to 60 hours per week to support r-selected net consumers and their preference for Keynesian leisure. The r-selected will use their free stuff to breed to the Malthusian limits. When that happens, the K-selected start withdrawing to their upper-caste suburbs and in-town redoubts. When they can no longer withdraw, they shut down. In either event, the idealistic, K-selected civilization that enables this free ride disappears. And when it’s gone, it’s gone.
      Would you like to encourage a revolution among the r-selected? Really? Were the Watts riots harbingers of Restorative American Revolution?

      That's what has been happening in the Middle East for many decades: the K-selected have been leaving; now, they're shutting down. Same thing with Honduras, Peru, Libya, Somalia, Egypt. Or, closer to home, Camden, Detroit, Birmingham. There's no longer a sufficient Smart Fraction to maintain civilization. When the oil runs out, much of the Middle East will revert to nomadic tribes and banditry. When the EBT cards don't work, places like Detroit will be full of starving people. Since there won't be anybody to steal from, they'll die or become itinerant beggars. Detroit will revert to prairie like it's already doing in a lot of areas.
      I don't think seanD has either the experience or the will and bloody-mindedness to fill these power-vacuums with idealistic strivers for his new society and/or the bodies of feral savages with neither useful skills nor the discipline to acquire them when things go south. Therefore, calling and hoping for a "revolution" is extremely irresponsible and ironically likely to get those who agree with him most killed horribly.

      Chaos will come, probably in both slower and faster ways than expected, but the best way to respond to it is to order your mind and repent of your ideological sins now, before actual reality comes rushing in. Uniting under the banner that destroyed you is NOT the way to restore good. However, removing certain bad actors and bad ideas from your own mind before you start the rebuild can make the process go much smoother:

      There is a strong classically-liberal ethos in the Anglo and European spheres which says we will allow you to make as much money as you want, and in return, you will not use your incredible wealth to screw the rest of us over.

      Unfortunately the very rich, like the very poor, seemingly cannot help themselves. They must exploit every loophole in the tax code. They must park billions of dollars which rightfully belong to their shareholders in overseas banks. They must lobby for a cheaper workforce. They must fund "color revolutions" and "Arab Springs" which are really just advance payments to rival governors so their particular multi-national can be first out of the gate once the new government settles in.

      The very rich do not care about building anything lasting beyond a leg up for their own progeny. They do not care if your neighborhood gets transformed into a barrio; their neighborhood will always look great. They are not loyal to the American, British, French or other nations; they carry their nation with them wherever they go. They don't cut their losses, pay down debt and tighten their belts; they get bailouts. Their companies don't extend forested space or actually reduce their ecological footprint; they just haggle over LEEDS certifications and carbon credits. You are just a consumer among a zillion other consumers whose aggregate transactions make them incredibly wealthy. Governmental relations are just another line item in the business plan.

      In sum, the concerns of the very rich are no longer conservative causes, and the Republicans should abandon them.
      This is assuming that Republicans aren't just making their salary by being Just Conservative Enough To Get Elected.

      Comment


      • #4
        As usual, you're misunderstanding my view about this. I'm not advocating a revolution. I'm saying I believe a revolution is inevitable based on the circumstances in this country and based on the reactions I've been seeing from the populace not just in this country but the discontent and movements forming in multiple countries around the world about essentially the same issues. I don't exactly know how it will shape and what it will look like when it happens in this country, but I believe it will be a snowball event, and I do think it will be chaotic for the most part. My opinion on whether I think there should be one and how it should occur is irrelevant.
        "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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        • #5
          I am waiting for the Monroe Republic!


          Comment


          • #6
            It'll be a very blessed day if we get a good revolution that puts in power people who are sane and incorrupt (heck, even just relatively incorrupt).

            Comment


            • #7
              "relatively incorrupt"

              Hah! Like that'll ever happen.







              I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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              • #8
                Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out.

                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out.

                  Hey, we used to say that in the Marine Corps...
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This is a weird situation.

                    First, do we know for sure that he legally owns that land?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Manwë Súlimo View Post
                      This is a weird situation.

                      First, do we know for sure that he legally owns that land?
                      I used to belong to the state, then the Feds grabbed in the late 90s I believe. This was always an open grazing area, the Bundy family has been using it since the early 1800s, as did all the other local farmers. The Feds stopped that practice to "save" some turtle. Not that there was any evidence that the cows were regularly murdering said turtles. And now we are finding out that there may be a connection to Harry Reid’s son and a Chinese solar company:http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen...f-bundy-ranch/

                      But the bottom line is that this is government overreach and people are just sick of it.
                      Last edited by seer; 04-12-2014, 10:58 AM.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Manwë Súlimo View Post
                        This is a weird situation.

                        First, do we know for sure that he legally owns that land?
                        I thought I saw him on TV saying that the land was owned by the state and not the feds and that his family had been using it for generations

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          I used to belong to the state, then the Feds grabbed in the late 90s I believe. This was always a grazing area, the Bundy family has been using it since the early 1800s, as did all the other local farmers. The Feds stopped that practice to "save" some turtle. Not that there was any evidence that the cows were regularly murdering said turtles. And now we are finding out that there may be a connection to Harry Reid’s son and a Chinese solar company:http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen...f-bundy-ranch/

                          But the bottom line is that this is government overreach and people are just sick of it.
                          And I thought I heard that this turtle was no longer endangered and that the feds are now having to kill some due to overpopulation

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            And I thought I heard that this turtle was no longer endangered and that the feds are now having to kill some due to overpopulation
                            I wouldn't doubt it. What is happening to this farmer is just wrong and from what I understand a number of other local farmers went out of business because of these regulations.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Nevada Cattle Rancher Wins 'Range War' With Feds...

                              The federal government had countered that Bundy "owes the American people in excess of $1 million " in unpaid grazing fees and "refuses to abide by the law of land, despite many opportunities over the last 20 years to do so."

                              However, today the BLM said it would not enforce a court order to remove the cattle and was pulling out of the area.

                              "Based on information about conditions on the ground, and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public," BLM Director Neil Kornze said.

                              "We ask that all parties in the area remain peaceful and law-abiding as the Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service work to end the operation in an orderly manner," he said.
                              Yeah, that might be a good idea in light of the fact your armed federal goons will have to deal with armed militias and no longer have the luxury of pushing little old ladies and pregnant women around.
                              "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                              Comment

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