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  • #46
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Kinda like "tax not me and tax not thee - tax that man behind that tree".
    My mistress's eyes are nothing like the sun.
    "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
    Hear my cry, hear my shout,
    Save me, save me"

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by guacamole View Post
      My mistress's eyes are nothing like the sun.
      Good, cause if that's you in your Avatar, you'd melt in a heartbeat!
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by guacamole View Post
        This is like legendary stuff--and I mean that in a bad way. There are ways to fire bad teachers. My district has turned out plenty, even with strong union protection.



        Source: It’s basically impossible to fire a New York City school teacher


        It’s the city that never sacks.

        New York City is one of the hardest places in the nation to fire ineffective public-school teachers, according to a new study.

        A report by the Thomas Fordham Institute found that, out of 25 school districts across the country, only San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Chicago make it more onerous to boot failing instructors than New York City.

        “Once teachers are granted tenure, the dismissal timeline is protracted, and the dismissal itself is extremely vulnerable to challenge,” the conservative-leaning think tank concluded.

        Its report — titled “Undue Process: Why Bad Teachers in 25 Diverse Districts Rarely Get Fired” — said New York City administrators face nearly prohibitive hurdles when trying to terminate staffers who repeatedly fail to make the grade.

        At a minimum, it takes two years to dismiss a tenured city teacher, according to the report.

        “And that’s the best-case scenario,” said one of the study’s authors, David Griffith. “But two years is already far too long — it usually doesn’t take two years to fire someone who isn’t doing a good job in most industries.”

        Even after they’ve been marked for termination, instructors can drag out the process internally or through court action, the report said.



        Source

        © Copyright Original Source



        Source: City pays exiled teachers to snooze as ‘rubber rooms’ return


        The city’s infamous rubber rooms have rebounded.

        In one of the “reassignment centers,” 16 exiled educators sit in a city Department of Education building in Long Island City, Queens, including a dozen packed into one room — where they do virtually no work.

        They listen to music, do crossword puzzles, chat — and as this exclusive Post photo reveals, doze on the taxpayer’s dime.

        The rules forbid beach chairs and air mattresses, but not nap time. The teacher sprawled on the floor, pulled a wool hat over his eyes to shut out the fluorescent lights and slept.

        00000000000000ars6a.jpg
        A teacher is seen sleeping in a Queens rubber room.


        Others prop up two chairs to recline or just lay their heads on the table. “It’s gone right back to the way it was in the old days, an old-fashioned rubber room,” one banished teacher said.

        Despite the photographic evidence and teacher testimony to the contrary, the city denies the existence of the derided holding pens. “There are no more rubber rooms,” DOE officials told The Post last week, saying reassigned staffers are given “administrative duties.”

        In 2010, the DOE and the teachers union trumpeted a major agreement to close the centers holding more than 700 idled educators accused of misconduct or incompetence.

        Many teachers settled charges by paying fines and finally returned to classrooms, while those still expelled were scattered across the five boroughs. But the rubber room deal is routinely violated. “No one pays any attention to the agreement,” said Betsy Combier, a veteran paralegal who helps defend teachers.



        Source

        © Copyright Original Source



        Source: City will spend $29 million on salaries, benefits of educators it can’t fire


        The city will spend a whopping $29 million in 2013 on the salaries and benefits of outcast educators who are deemed too dangerous or incompetent to work in public school classrooms but cannot be immediately fired, the Daily News has learned.

        As of Friday, there were 326 city educators who have been reassigned away from the classroom yet were still collecting pay, a sharp rise from 2012, when 218 ousted teachers drained $22 million from city coffers, Education Department records show.

        The teachers and school administrators are accused of abusing kids, breaking rules or just being lousy educators. But they're still collecting salaries because of a controversial firing process that makes it too difficult to terminate bad employees, education officials charge.

        Back in 2010, Mayor Bloomberg and the city teachers union agreed to eliminate the shameful "rubber rooms" that house these expensive educational pariahs, but critics say the only difference is that today the accused teachers are spread out in spare offices across the city instead of being herded together.

        "We still have rubber rooms," said Francesco Portelos, an engineering teacher from Intermediate school 49 on Staten Island who has been reassigned away from the classroom for more than 17 months. "The only difference is we're not being corralled anymore."



        Source

        © Copyright Original Source



        Source: Firing teachers: An endless odyssey


        ‘You’re fired!” For many New Yorkers, the chance to say those words to our next President can’t come soon enough. But barring an impeachment miracle, they'll have to wait several years for that chance.

        So what say you, reader? Do you need four or eight more years to form an opinion about Trump — pro or con? How long does it really take to know if someone isn’t the right fit for a job?

        Obviously, the President is a special case. Still, the question stands, and the answer matters, especially when it comes to another key role in our democracy: the public school teacher. Like the President’s performance, a teacher’s performance has grave consequences — not just for kids’ academic achievement but for their long-term prospects.

        Unfortunately, as we document in a new analysis, in most places, dismissing an ineffective teacher remains far too hard. And in New York City and state, it’s particularly challenging.



        Source

        © Copyright Original Source


        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Source: It’s basically impossible to fire a New York City school teacher


          It’s the city that never sacks.

          New York City is one of the hardest places in the nation to fire ineffective public-school teachers, according to a new study.

          A report by the Thomas Fordham Institute found that, out of 25 school districts across the country, only San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Chicago make it more onerous to boot failing instructors than New York City.

          “Once teachers are granted tenure, the dismissal timeline is protracted, and the dismissal itself is extremely vulnerable to challenge,” the conservative-leaning think tank concluded.

          Its report — titled “Undue Process: Why Bad Teachers in 25 Diverse Districts Rarely Get Fired” — said New York City administrators face nearly prohibitive hurdles when trying to terminate staffers who repeatedly fail to make the grade.

          At a minimum, it takes two years to dismiss a tenured city teacher, according to the report.

          “And that’s the best-case scenario,” said one of the study’s authors, David Griffith. “But two years is already far too long — it usually doesn’t take two years to fire someone who isn’t doing a good job in most industries.”

          Even after they’ve been marked for termination, instructors can drag out the process internally or through court action, the report said.



          Source

          © Copyright Original Source



          Source: City pays exiled teachers to snooze as ‘rubber rooms’ return


          The city’s infamous rubber rooms have rebounded.

          In one of the “reassignment centers,” 16 exiled educators sit in a city Department of Education building in Long Island City, Queens, including a dozen packed into one room — where they do virtually no work.

          They listen to music, do crossword puzzles, chat — and as this exclusive Post photo reveals, doze on the taxpayer’s dime.

          The rules forbid beach chairs and air mattresses, but not nap time. The teacher sprawled on the floor, pulled a wool hat over his eyes to shut out the fluorescent lights and slept.

          [ATTACH=CONFIG]26670[/ATTACH]
          A teacher is seen sleeping in a Queens rubber room.


          Others prop up two chairs to recline or just lay their heads on the table. “It’s gone right back to the way it was in the old days, an old-fashioned rubber room,” one banished teacher said.

          Despite the photographic evidence and teacher testimony to the contrary, the city denies the existence of the derided holding pens. “There are no more rubber rooms,” DOE officials told The Post last week, saying reassigned staffers are given “administrative duties.”

          In 2010, the DOE and the teachers union trumpeted a major agreement to close the centers holding more than 700 idled educators accused of misconduct or incompetence.

          Many teachers settled charges by paying fines and finally returned to classrooms, while those still expelled were scattered across the five boroughs. But the rubber room deal is routinely violated. “No one pays any attention to the agreement,” said Betsy Combier, a veteran paralegal who helps defend teachers.



          Source

          © Copyright Original Source



          Source: City will spend $29 million on salaries, benefits of educators it can’t fire


          The city will spend a whopping $29 million in 2013 on the salaries and benefits of outcast educators who are deemed too dangerous or incompetent to work in public school classrooms but cannot be immediately fired, the Daily News has learned.

          As of Friday, there were 326 city educators who have been reassigned away from the classroom yet were still collecting pay, a sharp rise from 2012, when 218 ousted teachers drained $22 million from city coffers, Education Department records show.

          The teachers and school administrators are accused of abusing kids, breaking rules or just being lousy educators. But they're still collecting salaries because of a controversial firing process that makes it too difficult to terminate bad employees, education officials charge.

          Back in 2010, Mayor Bloomberg and the city teachers union agreed to eliminate the shameful "rubber rooms" that house these expensive educational pariahs, but critics say the only difference is that today the accused teachers are spread out in spare offices across the city instead of being herded together.

          "We still have rubber rooms," said Francesco Portelos, an engineering teacher from Intermediate school 49 on Staten Island who has been reassigned away from the classroom for more than 17 months. "The only difference is we're not being corralled anymore."



          Source

          © Copyright Original Source



          Source: Firing teachers: An endless odyssey


          ‘You’re fired!” For many New Yorkers, the chance to say those words to our next President can’t come soon enough. But barring an impeachment miracle, they'll have to wait several years for that chance.

          So what say you, reader? Do you need four or eight more years to form an opinion about Trump — pro or con? How long does it really take to know if someone isn’t the right fit for a job?

          Obviously, the President is a special case. Still, the question stands, and the answer matters, especially when it comes to another key role in our democracy: the public school teacher. Like the President’s performance, a teacher’s performance has grave consequences — not just for kids’ academic achievement but for their long-term prospects.

          Unfortunately, as we document in a new analysis, in most places, dismissing an ineffective teacher remains far too hard. And in New York City and state, it’s particularly challenging.



          Source

          © Copyright Original Source

          Key points from the articles. The first one is about "ineffective teaching" not "criminality". At any rate:

          Even after they’ve been marked for termination, instructors can drag out the process internally or through court action, the report said.
          So the problem is that the city has to follow a legal contract to which the agreed to be willing party?
          ----
          From the second article--the section you quoted:

          In 2010, the DOE and the teachers union trumpeted a major agreement to close the centers holding more than 700 idled educators accused of misconduct or incompetence.
          Emphasis mine.
          ----

          The third article was not a "study" in the typical sense of the word. It was two guys and their interns reading through the official policies of districts around the country. They did offer this gem:

          Because data on teacher dismissals are nearly impossible to come by, our report focuses on the dismissal process as it exists on paper — that is, as articulated in state and district policy.

          So yeah, the unions guarantee due process. I wish everyone had the same guarantee that I did.

          fwiw,
          guac.
          "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
          Hear my cry, hear my shout,
          Save me, save me"

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Because they served a purpose.
            What purpose?

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by JimL View Post
              What purpose?
              It does not surprise me that you don't know.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                It does not surprise me that you don't know.
                It doesn't surprise me that you can't simply answer directly to the question asked. Fact is, if unions disappeared completely then the reasons for their being formed in the first place would return. The reason you think they are no longer necessary is because they exist.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  It doesn't surprise me that you can't simply answer directly to the question asked.
                  I simply declined to play your goofy games.

                  Fact is, if unions disappeared completely then the reasons for their being formed in the first place would return.
                  That's just idiotic. We have whole government agencies involved now that weren't involved before.

                  The reason you think they are no longer necessary is because they exist.
                  Jimmy - you can't even figure out what a "boy" is, much less what I think. You just excel at being wrong.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment

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