Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Oakland Mayor Warns Illegals Of ICE Raids...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
    it is also tautologically true that a state that exercises no control over its borders isn't really a state.
    The States did so (on immigration) for over 100 years, and could do so again. The States would then still be states.

    (I don't think the tautologically required "control over its borders" requires restriction of immigration of peaceful, non-criminals, but that's a different question.)

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Joel View Post
      The States did so (on immigration) for over 100 years, and could do so again. The States would then still be states.
      Yes and it resulted in a fundamental change in the nature of the united states away from the founders vision. Each subsequent wave of mass migration has done the same. The one that started with kennedy in the 60s (or 70s, I don't remember exactly) has been no different.

      (I don't think the tautologically required "control over its borders" requires restriction of immigration of peaceful, non-criminals, but that's a different question.)
      Being peaceful or non-criminal has absolutely no bearing on the subject. In the current situation the laws explicitly ban people from entering without permission but the government refuses to enforce the ban because it allows their owners (mostly corporations) to exploit the incoming labor. The recent immigrants have, for the most part, no understanding or desire to adopt america's founding principles. IE: they overwhelmingly support censorship, firearms restriction and the trampling of religious freedoms (unless you are muslim). Letting them in, even if they are peaceful and non-criminal, is a strict violation of the constitution's requirements that the blessings of liberty be preserved for the founders and their posterity.
      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Joel View Post
        The States did so (on immigration) for over 100 years, and could do so again. The States would then still be states.

        (I don't think the tautologically required "control over its borders" requires restriction of immigration of peaceful, non-criminals, but that's a different question.)
        Think about what you are saying Joel, in a perfect world it may work, but in this world our country would descend into a third world, welfare socialist state.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          Think about what you are saying Joel, in a perfect world it may work, but in this world our country would descend into a third world, welfare socialist state.
          all rigid political ideologies can be manipulated into suicide. Hardcore libertarians will happily give up all their liberty just to consistently hold their political beliefs for 10 minutes. It's why libertarianism is pretty terrible at protecting liberty.
          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Think about what you are saying Joel, in a perfect world it may work, but in this world our country would descend into a third world, welfare socialist state.
            Even if so, that would still be a state; therefore, an alternative is not tautologically required to be a state. That's all I was saying.

            Are you wanting to shift gears and debate the desirability of certain restrictions? Or continue with the question of federal vs state?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Joel View Post
              Even if so, that would still be a state;
              It would be a completely different state, because the original state looked out for the interests of foreigners at the terminal expense of its actual citizens. A treasonous government has no legitimacy.
              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                all rigid political ideologies can be manipulated into suicide. Hardcore libertarians will happily give up all their liberty just to consistently hold their political beliefs for 10 minutes. It's why libertarianism is pretty terrible at protecting liberty.
                As a Libertarian (minarchist) I support the this post. Too much libertarianism is just anarchy. Without the state nothing can last.
                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Joel View Post
                  Even if so, that would still be a state; therefore, an alternative is not tautologically required to be a state. That's all I was saying.

                  Are you wanting to shift gears and debate the desirability of certain restrictions? Or continue with the question of federal vs state?
                  My point is that your position is not workable, it is not reality. And the idea that a nation state does not inherently have the right to decide who does or does not come in is nonsensical.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Oakland mayor helped criminal illegals escape, ICE chief says

                    Or why liberalism will kill you...

                    More than 850 illegal immigrants managed to elude deportation officers conducting operations in Northern California this week, and the head of the deportation force on Tuesday blamed Oakland Mayor Libby Schaaf for helping some of them escape.

                    More than 150 migrants were nabbed in the operations, according to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Half of them had criminal convictions, ICE said.

                    One of the men arrested was a 38-year-old Mexican who belongs to the Sureno gang, and who had been deported four times before, authorities said. Others had weapons, domestic violence and drunken driving convictions.

                    But some 864 criminals ICE was seeking remain at large in the Oakland and San Francisco region, ICE said.

                    The operation gained attention after Ms. Schaaf issued a very public warning to her community that ICE was making arrests. She said she wanted them to be aware and to take needed steps to protect themselves.
                    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...minal-illegal/
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      My point is that your position is not workable, it is not reality. And the idea that a nation state does not inherently have the right to decide who does or does not come in is nonsensical.
                      My position, in this thread, has only regarded the relationship between state and federal. I've not taken a position on the desirability of any particular immigration restrictions. I've not argued that a state does not have the right to impose such restrictions. These are all different questions from what I've commented on.

                      As a follow-up on your last statement: Assuming that states do inherently have rights, in the case of the U.S., that is the States. who happen to have formed a federal union in which they have delegated a limited set of their powers (inherent or otherwise) to the federal government that they created as their collective agent. It has always been denied (and explicitly by the 10th Amendment) that the federal government inherently has any powers or rights. It is solely a creation and agent of the states. Its powers are not inherent but delegated by the Constitution.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Oakland mayor helped criminal illegals escape, ICE chief says

                        Or why liberalism will kill you...



                        https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...minal-illegal/
                        I'll take a position on this: Obstructing the apprehension of violent criminals is idiotic.

                        Comment

                        Related Threads

                        Collapse

                        Topics Statistics Last Post
                        Started by CivilDiscourse, 10-24-2020, 08:17 AM
                        4 responses
                        63 views
                        1 like
                        Last Post rogue06
                        by rogue06
                         
                        Started by LiconaFan97, 10-23-2020, 04:56 PM
                        29 responses
                        192 views
                        0 likes
                        Last Post Starlight  
                        Started by Juvenal, 10-23-2020, 11:08 AM
                        10 responses
                        103 views
                        0 likes
                        Last Post Juvenal
                        by Juvenal
                         
                        Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 10-23-2020, 08:52 AM
                        6 responses
                        67 views
                        0 likes
                        Last Post rogue06
                        by rogue06
                         
                        Started by Ronson, 10-22-2020, 10:59 PM
                        78 responses
                        597 views
                        0 likes
                        Last Post Ronson
                        by Ronson
                         
                        Working...
                        X