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The Netherlands view on Immigration

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  • The Netherlands view on Immigration

    I recently read/watched an article about the Netherlands and some of the changes they have made concerning their immigration laws. What triggered me to take a look was:

    http://content.time.com/time/video/p...d=tabvidrecirc

    It seems one of the biggest bones of contention is that people will be asked/made to possibly leave if they do not learn the language of the Netherlands within two years. Besides anything else, does anyone find that to be a bad thing?

    It just seems to me that when you pick a country to go 'live' in, that should be a major priority anyway. If you can't speak the native language, how do you understand the laws etc. etc. Anyway, I didn't see a thread about it, and was curious as to what people thought.

    A quick disclaimer, I realise sometimes that people are forced into a position that makes them have to leave their homeland. However, where they choose to go is generally up to them.
    JCAtheist


    "I pointed out to you the stars and all you saw was the tip of my finger."


    --Kiswahili Proverb

  • #2
    I'm good with it. They shouldn't have to master the language too quickly, but it's reasonable to expect that they make some basic progress with the language. It may be worthwhile to provide some sort of resource to help them learn, though.
    "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

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    • #3
      Originally posted by myth View Post
      I'm good with it. They shouldn't have to master the language too quickly, but it's reasonable to expect that they make some basic progress with the language. It may be worthwhile to provide some sort of resource to help them learn, though.
      From what I saw, they do. They provide learning materials and such. Is two years a fair time to learn a completely new language enough to be able to interview for a job though? It -sounds- fair.. but I can't say I know.
      JCAtheist


      "I pointed out to you the stars and all you saw was the tip of my finger."


      --Kiswahili Proverb

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JCAtheist View Post
        From what I saw, they do. They provide learning materials and such. Is two years a fair time to learn a completely new language enough to be able to interview for a job though? It -sounds- fair.. but I can't say I know.
        Sounds fair. Though I must admit that I'm not bilingual in any sense of the word, so I have no metric by which to judge that time frame. My next personal project is to learn Spanish, so I guess I'll find out later.
        "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by JCAtheist View Post
          From what I saw, they do. They provide learning materials and such. ...
          Don't know if they still do, but Germany used to provide not only materials but extensive classes free of charge, and not merely to immigrants but to their guest workers as well.
          βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
          ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

          אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by robrecht View Post
            Don't know if they still do, but Germany used to provide not only materials but extensive classes free of charge, and not merely to immigrants but to their guest workers as well.
            I think most places do that require that place such requirements. Would certainly be a much bigger outcry, I would think, if they made such immigration laws and DIDN'T supply access to actually be able to learn in a reasonable time frame.

            I do wonder why the video seemed to think it directly targeted Muslims though. It seems like a pretty straight forward idea, and one that other countries, such as Australia, have used for a while. If it applies to everyone, how does it specifically target one group?

            JCAtheist


            "I pointed out to you the stars and all you saw was the tip of my finger."


            --Kiswahili Proverb

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JCAtheist View Post
              I recently read/watched an article about the Netherlands and some of the changes they have made concerning their immigration laws. What triggered me to take a look was:

              http://content.time.com/time/video/p...d=tabvidrecirc

              It seems one of the biggest bones of contention is that people will be asked/made to possibly leave if they do not learn the language of the Netherlands within two years. Besides anything else, does anyone find that to be a bad thing?

              It just seems to me that when you pick a country to go 'live' in, that should be a major priority anyway. If you can't speak the native language, how do you understand the laws etc. etc. Anyway, I didn't see a thread about it, and was curious as to what people thought.

              A quick disclaimer, I realise sometimes that people are forced into a position that makes them have to leave their homeland. However, where they choose to go is generally up to them.
              Yeah!
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by JCAtheist View Post
                From what I saw, they do. They provide learning materials and such. Is two years a fair time to learn a completely new language enough to be able to interview for a job though? It -sounds- fair.. but I can't say I know.
                I'm wondering what business they have in that country in the first place if they can't communicate well enough to work.
                "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                  I'm wondering what business they have in that country in the first place if they can't communicate well enough to work.
                  I guess in the case of those in the video, they did so to get away from religious oppression in their own country. From what was mentioned, anyway. But yes, why go somewhere you have a hard time communicating? And then to point it out as being some for of suppression of a whole ideology seems a little... odd.

                  Doesn't seem to me that religion comes in to it, except for it being their reason to have moved, apparently. And it's not like they were even denied entry.. just told that now you have so much time to show that you can fit in to the society you are wishing to be part of.

                  AM I missing something? Heh.
                  JCAtheist


                  "I pointed out to you the stars and all you saw was the tip of my finger."


                  --Kiswahili Proverb

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Meanwhile, in America:


                    Racial tensions are inflamed at the University of California at Los Angeles following several incidents — most notably, one where a professor corrected the grammar, punctuation and capitalization in minority students’ assignments.
                    How DARE he?

                    The act of correcting a black student was “micro-aggression,” according to the members of the student group “Call 2 Action: Graduate Students of Color,” which launched a sit-in during a subsequent meeting of the class.
                    This is what happens when you don't macro-agress.

                    “A hostile campus climate has been the norm for Students of Color in this class throughout the quarter as our epistemological and methodological commitments have been repeatedly questioned by our classmates and our instructor,” wrote the group in a statement to the college. “[The] barrage of questions by white colleagues and the grammar ‘lessons’ by the professor have contributed to a hostile class climate.”
                    Which white feminist traitor helped them write that?

                    Some 25 students participated in the sit-in, including five of the 10 members of the class.

                    Val Rust, a professor of education and information, was the official target of the sit-in, though the aggrieved minority students had problems with UCLA’s handling of racial issues that went far beyond just one classroom, according to Inside Higher Ed.
                    With liberals, it somehow always does.

                    Rust is guest-lecturing in China this week, and did not respond to a request for comment. He sent a letter to his colleagues in the education department, however, in which he clarified that he meant no offense to minorities.

                    “I have attempted to be rather thorough on the papers and am particularly concerned that they do a good job with their bibliographies and citations, and these students apparently don’t feel that is appropriate,” he said in a statement, according to The Daily Bruin.

                    Some of the corrections were clarified by sit-in organizer Kenjus Watson. Rust told one student that she should not capitalize the word “indigenous” in her papers. This correction was ideologically-motivated, according to Watson.
                    Me, I always had a problem with Thomas Jefferson capitalizing "merciless indian savages" in the Declaration.

                    Rust admitted that he likely made matters worse by not aggressively and proactively taking the side of a minority student who was engaged in an argument with a white female student. The minority student told the woman that she had no right to feel oppressed, and Rust did not express agreement either way.
                    AMBIVALENCE IS HATE AND LEGALLY ACTIONABLE, CRACKA!

                    “Two weeks ago a Student of Color and a white female student [Nice microagressing against the decapitalized nonperson there] got into a big discussion,” said Rust. “She wants to use Standpoint Theory [a method of analysis coined by feminist sociologist Dorothy Smith, based on the idea that all knowledge is subjective and based on one's position in society] in her dissertation, and the Student of Color told her she had no business claiming that she was a member of an oppressed group.”
                    Good strategy for the current ruling leftist coalition: Let them fight each other to a standstill, then kill whatever's left.

                    “She came back saying there are all kinds of oppression. I likely did not handle the situation well, because I chose not to stop the discussion between them, so it went on for quite a while, and the Students of Color apparently interpreted my silence to mean I wasn’t supporting them.”
                    It's been a couple hundred years since this race was imported and sort of learned to speak our language, and this attitude is common around 80-90% of their population. My position on immigration, therefore, would be allowing people in on racial and ethnic similarity to the host population first and 'language ability' a far distant second. Turn away immigrants politely but firmly, and if anyone proposes importing large numbers of them because duty or votes or cheap labor or whatever, hang them politely but firmly as traitors to their people and their nation. Whether in Denmark or the United States, diversity kills both local culture and free speech.
                    Last edited by Epoetker; 04-05-2014, 04:51 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
                      Meanwhile, in America:

                      How DARE he?

                      etc. etc. etc.

                      So, what you are saying is, that on the face of it, you don't think it's a bad policy to have anyway... for those that manage to sneak in under the radar?

                      JCAtheist


                      "I pointed out to you the stars and all you saw was the tip of my finger."


                      --Kiswahili Proverb

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
                        Meanwhile, in America:




                        How DARE he?



                        This is what happens when you don't macro-agress.



                        Which white feminist traitor helped them write that?



                        With liberals, it somehow always does.



                        Me, I always had a problem with Thomas Jefferson capitalizing "merciless indian savages" in the Declaration.



                        AMBIVALENCE IS HATE AND LEGALLY ACTIONABLE, CRACKA!



                        Good strategy for the current ruling leftist coalition: Let them fight each other to a standstill, then kill whatever's left.



                        It's been a couple hundred years since this race was imported and sort of learned to speak our language, and this attitude is common around 80-90% of their population. My position on immigration, therefore, would be allowing people in on racial and ethnic similarity to the host population first and 'language ability' a far distant second. Turn away immigrants politely but firmly, and if anyone proposes importing large numbers of them because duty or votes or cheap labor or whatever, hang them politely but firmly as traitors to their people and their nation. Whether in Denmark or the United States, diversity kills both local culture and free speech.
                        I heard the KKK was looking for new members.
                        "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
                        "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
                        Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Since nobody has mentioned the elephant in the room, I will. A cultural struggle in Europe right now is large number of Muslims immigrating in, and some rather uncomfortable cultural clashes have resulted (i.e. the Theo van Gogh incident). I would bet good money that this has much to do with this particular stringent stance.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cerealman View Post
                            I heard the KKK was looking for new members.
                            I don't think Epo plays well with others.
                            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                            • #15
                              The kkk is just an environmentalist organization these days anyway.
                              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                              Comment

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