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Happy EASTER -- I mean, Transgender Visibility Day!

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  • Originally posted by Sam View Post

    I would expect that to be an argument in favor of increased discussion, if something Christ described as adultery enjoys state sponsorship in even "deep red" states. But the point is mainly that folks like Rogue and Cow Poke have no issue denigrating other Christians over their response and approach to transgender persons while themselves neglecting to extend the same attitude toward Christians who tolerate or even favor remarriage after divorce. The latter simply doesn't enjoy the weight given to the former.

    And, for what it's worth, we actually are seeing a political resurgent effort targeting divorce. It's a topical subject!

    Source: Trump allies prepare to infuse ‘Christian nationalism’ in second administration. Alexander Ward and Heidi Przybyla. Politico. 2024.02.20

    The Heritage Foundation’s Project 2025 offers more visibility into what policy agenda a future Trump administration might pursue. It says policies that support LGBTQ+ rights, subsidize “single-motherhood” and penalize marriage should be repealed because subjective notions of “gender identity” threaten “Americans’ fundamental liberties.”

    It also proposes increasing surveillance of abortion and maternal mortality reporting in the states, compelling the Food and Drug Administration to revoke approval of “chemical abortion drugs” and protecting “religious and moral” objections for employers who decline contraception coverage for employees. One of the groups that partners with Project 2025, Turning Point USA, is among conservative influencers that health professionals have criticized for targeting young women with misleading health concerns about hormonal birth control. Another priority is defunding Planned Parenthood, which provides reproductive health care to low-income women.

    Wolfe, who has deleted several posts on X that detail his views, has a more extreme outlook of what a government led by Christian nationalists should propose. In a December post, he called for ending sex education in schools, surrogacy and no-fault divorce throughout the country, as well as forcing men “to provide for their children as soon as it’s determined the child is theirs” — a clear incursion by the government into Americans’ private lives.

    “Christians should reject a Christ-less ‘conservatism,’” he expanded in another X missive, “and demand the political movement we are most closely associated with make a return to Christ-centered foundations. Because it’s either Christ or chaos, even on the ‘Right.’”

    © Copyright Original Source



    -Sam
    Like any of that is going gain any steam on a legislative level. The left wouldn't tolerate it, and would be far less neutral about it than Christians are about LGBTQ policies.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      From the "Is NOTHING SACRED" vault....

      On the hand, it's more just a calendar thing. On the other, the whole point is that what was once sacred no longer are which is the point.
      P1) If , then I win.

      P2)

      C) I win.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seanD View Post

        Like any of that is going gain any steam on a legislative level. The left wouldn't tolerate it, and would be far less neutral about it than Christians are about LGBTQ policies.
        I also doubt Trump in particular is going to be interested in pushing policies that stigmatize divorce given he's had two.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seanD View Post

          Like any of that is going gain any steam on a legislative level. The left wouldn't tolerate it, and would be far less neutral about it than Christians are about LGBTQ policies.
          I'm just curious how Sam thinks it's a bad thing, especially given the current direction. Still better than four more years of the Biden handlers.
          P1) If , then I win.

          P2)

          C) I win.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Let me know the next time we have parades for and national holidays named in support of divorce and remarriage and then we'll talk.
            Originally posted by seanD View Post

            Like any of that is going gain any steam on a legislative level. The left wouldn't tolerate it, and would be far less neutral about it than Christians are about LGBTQ policies.
            Both of these comments do well to indicate that it's not Scriptural fidelity that drives your interest in these matters of civic discussion but rather partisanship: what's worth talking about or advocating for is driven not by an examination of Scripture but the current political landscape. Scriptural teachings are therefore used to advance the political goals of a current cultural movement and teachings that already "lost the battle" can be given short shrift, even as they pervade the Church at rates far higher than whatever two-minute-hate issue appears on Gutfeld or such.

            And that is what it is ... but then don't try to go bullying other Christians over how they navigate those issues.

            -Sam
            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by seanD View Post
              However, I do find it interesting you admit it's an aberrancy induced by man-made chemicals, as opposed to something that's just normal and natural.
              I absolutely did not say that.

              I said I thought the likeliest option is that it's not increasing in prevalence now compared to the past.

              I said that if it was increasing in prevalence, which I view as less likely, that a possible cause of the increase could be man-made chemicals. If that were the case, then some proportion of transgenderism would be naturally occurring, and some proportion of it would be induced by man-made chemicals.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sam View Post



                Both of these comments do well to indicate that it's not Scriptural fidelity that drives your interest in these matters of civic discussion but rather partisanship: what's worth talking about or advocating for is driven not by an examination of Scripture but the current political landscape. Scriptural teachings are therefore used to advance the political goals of a current cultural movement and teachings that already "lost the battle" can be given short shrift, even as they pervade the Church at rates far higher than whatever two-minute-hate issue appears on Gutfeld or such.

                And that is what it is ... but then don't try to go bullying other Christians over how they navigate those issues.

                -Sam
                This just sounds like a desperate red herring used to change the subject.

                Personally, I agree that divorce shouldn't happen and its a tragedy that is does, though whether or not it should be enforced by government is a whole other matter. What are you trying equate here?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sam View Post

                  The point wasn't to negate what Christ said but to demonstrate how selective folks, here and most everywhere, are about the weight they give to what Jesus said.

                  If you and others thought His teachings on adultery were as significant as your inferences of how His teachings relate to transgender persons, we'd see something resembling equality, if not proportionality. What we see instead makes it clear you really don't have any room to bully others for how they handle and balance Scripture.

                  -Sam
                  The difference is that even among non-Christians, divorce is generally not celebrated or seen as a good thing and is often spoken of with a sense of shame and regret, so there's less need for Christians to point out that it's wrong.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                    The difference is that even among non-Christians, divorce is generally not celebrated or seen as a good thing and is often spoken of with a sense of shame and regret, so there's less need for Christians to point out that it's wrong.
                    Much like having abortion parties, complete with cake, there are divorce parties.
                    P1) If , then I win.

                    P2)

                    C) I win.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seanD View Post

                      This just sounds like a desperate red herring used to change the subject.

                      Personally, I agree that divorce shouldn't happen and its a tragedy that is does, though whether or not it should be enforced by government is a whole other matter. What are you trying equate here?
                      Given that the point revolves around the disproportionate haranguing over this subject and the deliberate inattention given points of Christ's teaching that are considerably more relevant to the American Church, it's not "changing the subject" — though I'm sure it seems that way to those who want to keep angling after motes in others' eyes.

                      -Sam
                      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sam View Post

                        Given that the point revolves around the disproportionate haranguing over this subject and the deliberate inattention given points of Christ's teaching that are considerably more relevant to the American Church, it's not "changing the subject" — though I'm sure it seems that way to those who want to keep angling after motes in others' eyes.

                        -Sam
                        So what are equating exactly? You want us to agree that government should ban divorce? You think that would equate to us not celebrating sexual sin and not wanting LGBTQ ideology shoved down our throats on a federal and national level?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seanD View Post

                          So what are equating exactly? You want us to agree that government should ban divorce? You think that would equate to us not celebrating sexual sin and not wanting LGBTQ ideology shoved down our throats on a federal and national level?
                          Go back to the start of the subtopic: if Christians here are going to harangue another Christian over their lack of loud-voice condemnation over something they consider against Christ's teaching, those same Christians ought not be giving the short-shrift to explicit teachings from Christ. We don't see Cow Poke starting threads or engaging in diatribes against remarriage in the Christian Church or the government's ubiquitous legal and financial sponsorship of such remarriages. We don't see Rogue snarking about remarried persons — not even when serial adulterers on their third wives hold prominent positions in government.

                          If you think a national day of recognition for transgender persons is "shoving LGBTQ ideology down [your] throat", I suggest considering that the world doesn't revolve around you and you can simply ignore a celebration that doesn't involve you at all. Especially if you have better things to do that day.

                          -Sam
                          "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            I'm not convinced it is - I would suspect there's just greater medical and public awareness about it now than in the past.

                            But if it has increased then I would tend to suspect chemicals in the water / environment / medication as the most likely cause of any increase. There's a lot of different substances circulating in the modern world that are somewhat concerningly chemically similar to hormones that the body uses. It's not impossible that exposure to those substances alone or in combination, could result in gender hormone disruptions in the womb or later. I'm not saying there's good proof of that as a cause, I'm saying as a scientist that's where I'd start looking for evidence.
                            I tend to think it is not either/or. The publicness of it means both that some people that dont quite fit in as stereotypically masculine or feminine will see this and think "maybe that's me" that in other times would have just dealt with their discongruency in other ways and gone on to live normal lives perfectly happy with their physical sex after making it through the teenage years. Otoh there are people that would gave been tormented their entire lives by the discongruency in a world that gave them no other option.

                            personally, I believe that we should not be setting things up in a way that the former category is encouraged to follow a trans path - primarily because the natural body will function best and they will be the most happy over all if they can become comfortable with who they are physically

                            But then there are also those in that latter category that I believe need to have a place, that study after study shows will be happier and better off, less likely to be self destructive or seek suicide, if they make the transition.

                            And with the political climate on this like it is, it is almost impossible to find any sort of balance on this issue. On the left there are those that are actively encouraging trans for people that don't need it and that overall will be harmed by it. People who will attack and dress down anyone pushing back or calling for a more cautious approach that takes into account the confusion and wild emotions and difficulties with self image that are ripe for exploitation during puberty.

                            And then there are those on the right that foster hostility hatred of anything trans, that refuse medical treatment to those that truly need it, and who create an environment that can be lethal to a trans person. And unfortunately, a large number of Christians, many just like the ones posting here in this thread. Have chosen this path of hate and rejection as their response to trans, a response that ultimately destroys lives.

                            I dont have a clue yet how to reconcile the theology and the physical realities, but there are many legitimate christian leaders and psychologists trying their best to speak to both compassion and understanding in the Christian church on these issues, as well as theological considerations. The destructive nature and ultimate inconsistency with following Christvof that hostile approach is what im trying to highlight here. Even if your theology is that it is sin, the sorts of hate and hostility we see here on this issue nearly every single day is contrary to Christ's teaching and to Christian faith.


                            Last edited by oxmixmudd; 04-02-2024, 10:19 PM.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sam View Post

                              Go back to the start of the subtopic: if Christians here are going to harangue another Christian over their lack of loud-voice condemnation over something they consider against Christ's teaching, those same Christians ought not be giving the short-shrift to explicit teachings from Christ. We don't see Cow Poke starting threads or engaging in diatribes against remarriage in the Christian Church or the government's ubiquitous legal and financial sponsorship of such remarriages. We don't see Rogue snarking about remarried persons — not even when serial adulterers on their third wives hold prominent positions in government.

                              If you think a national day of recognition for transgender persons is "shoving LGBTQ ideology down [your] throat", I suggest considering that the world doesn't revolve around you and you can simply ignore a celebration that doesn't involve you at all. Especially if you have better things to do that day.

                              -Sam
                              It's more than just a day, as it's permeated our entire culture and society to such a degree that it's impossible to ignore it. When you have men pretending to be women competing in women's sports, men pretending to be women entering female restrooms and dressing rooms, drag queens stripping in front of children, drag queen nutcases and kleptomaniacs running federal offices, and supreme court justices who can't answer what a woman is, it's a subject that's impossible to ignore. Again, divorce is not an aberrant ideology being shoved down our throats as something we should be celebrating in the same manner. Sorry, but you have no sound standing on this issue as self-proclaimed Christian. Perhaps you should be admonishing oxmixmudd for condemning Christians and calling them "Satan's emissary" because they feel abortion and LGBTQ is not a Christian position to take.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                                The fact that you refuse to advocate against behavior that the Bible explicitly condemns and instead tip toe around the issue, doing your best not to offend the world while hypocritically condemning your follow Christians who openly call it a sin is a large part of the problem. I've asked you before if it ever bothers you that you regularly get pats on the back from those on this forum who openly reject Christianity and mock your fellow believers.
                                First, my point here is to make the case that the sort of hatred, mockery, disdain and judgement that is in fact the staple of discussions about trans and gay here is contrary to Christ's teaching, life, and calling, even if you regard being trans and/or gay sin.

                                Second, pointing out that reality is not to 'condemn my fellow Christians', but rather to call them to behave in a way consistent with who they have chosen to serve. To not yield to the carnal nature when dealing with these topics. And if such a call is met with humility and love, it is a redemptive act.

                                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                                Comment

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