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Kevin O’ Leary Advocates Billionaire Anarchy

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  • Kevin O’ Leary Advocates Billionaire Anarchy

    In defending Trump against fraud charges, Kevin O’ Leary said the quiet part out loud in response to the crimes Trump was charged with:

    IMG_1714.jpeg

    O’Leary: “Everything you listed is done by every real estate developer, everywhere on earth, in every city.”

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  • #2
    Originally posted by whag View Post
    In defending Trump against fraud charges, Kevin O’ Leary said the quiet part out loud in response to the crimes Trump was charged with:

    IMG_1714.jpeg

    O’Leary: “Everything you listed is done by every real estate developer, everywhere on earth, in every city.”
    The "everyone does it" defense never worked with my mom, and apparently doesn't work with the judge, either.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by whag View Post
      O’Leary: “Everything you listed is done by every real estate developer, everywhere on earth, in every city.”
      Not that your post isn't misleading.

      The "everybody does it" is obviously referring to the perfectly normal business practice of a businessman estimating what his properties are worth and then offering them as collateral based on that valuation. The bank will then perform its due diligence and adjust that valuation accordingly. If that's a crime, then literally every business is guilty. This is why business owners throughout New York have started fleeing the state, despite empty reassurances from the governor that they won't be next.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #4
        So no source or context of what O'Leary was actually referring to when he made that statement?

        Here you go. You are welcome:
        Source: https://www.mediaite.com/tv/excuse-me-what-fraud-shark-tanks-kevin-oleary-gets-in-heated-exchange-with-cnns-laura-coates-over-trumps-business-practices/


        O’Leary has been making the media rounds since the judgement came down, claiming that it was going to be bad for business owners who, apparently, commit fraud all the time without it being prosecuted. That was one point O’Leary made during his testy conversation with CNN anchor Laura Coates:

        Coates: I hear about the so-called victimless crimes, but the laws on the books — falsification of business records in the second degree, issuing false financial statements, insurance fraud, conspiracy, and all these different aspects of it — those are actual crimes. I take as your point is that these should not have been prosecuted?

        O’Leary: No, my point is, there’s never been a case like this in 75 years. Everything you just listed off is done by every real estate developer, everywhere on Earth, in every city. This has never, ever been prosecuted.

        O’Leary continued, but Coates latched on to that first point:
        Coates: I do wonder how many people take issue with the idea that every investor is engaged in falsifying business records. Every investor is engaged in what has been accused of Donald Trump and the Trump Organization, because there’s probably a lot who are saying themselves, “I’ve never falsified my business records. I know what a square foot looks like. I know what where I can ask for and what I have the money to support.” So I wonder to what extent that really is true.

        But on the second point, wouldn’t there be many companies who would not want to do business or loan money to people like yourself or investors if they know that they can get away with fraud and there’s no recourse to protect them?

        O’Leary: Excuse me. What fraud? This is not about Trump anymore. When you get a developer that builds a building and he says it’s worth $400 million, and he wants to borrow 200 million from a bank, which happens every day everywhere on Earth, including every American city, every developer is an entrepreneur. They shine the light on their building and they say it’s worth 400. The bank does its own due diligence, as was done in this case, because they’re very good at it, the banks are very good, and they say, no, it’s worth 300. We’re only going to loan you 150 million. That haggling has gone on for decades. That’s how it works.

        © Copyright Original Source


        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Stoic View Post

          The "everyone does it" defense never worked with my mom, and apparently doesn't work with the judge, either.
          The issue is that it was never deemed anything nearly like criminal behavior before and now investors are afraid of putting money into New York for fear of upsetting the powers that be and being targeted in a similar manner.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            So no source or context of what O'Leary was actually referring to when he made that statement?

            Here you go. You are welcome:
            Source: https://www.mediaite.com/tv/excuse-me-what-fraud-shark-tanks-kevin-oleary-gets-in-heated-exchange-with-cnns-laura-coates-over-trumps-business-practices/


            O’Leary has been making the media rounds since the judgement came down, claiming that it was going to be bad for business owners who, apparently, commit fraud all the time without it being prosecuted. That was one point O’Leary made during his testy conversation with CNN anchor Laura Coates:

            Coates: I hear about the so-called victimless crimes, but the laws on the books — falsification of business records in the second degree, issuing false financial statements, insurance fraud, conspiracy, and all these different aspects of it — those are actual crimes. I take as your point is that these should not have been prosecuted?

            O’Leary: No, my point is, there’s never been a case like this in 75 years. Everything you just listed off is done by every real estate developer, everywhere on Earth, in every city. This has never, ever been prosecuted.

            O’Leary continued, but Coates latched on to that first point:
            Coates: I do wonder how many people take issue with the idea that every investor is engaged in falsifying business records. Every investor is engaged in what has been accused of Donald Trump and the Trump Organization, because there’s probably a lot who are saying themselves, “I’ve never falsified my business records. I know what a square foot looks like. I know what where I can ask for and what I have the money to support.” So I wonder to what extent that really is true.

            But on the second point, wouldn’t there be many companies who would not want to do business or loan money to people like yourself or investors if they know that they can get away with fraud and there’s no recourse to protect them?

            O’Leary: Excuse me. What fraud? This is not about Trump anymore. When you get a developer that builds a building and he says it’s worth $400 million, and he wants to borrow 200 million from a bank, which happens every day everywhere on Earth, including every American city, every developer is an entrepreneur. They shine the light on their building and they say it’s worth 400. The bank does its own due diligence, as was done in this case, because they’re very good at it, the banks are very good, and they say, no, it’s worth 300. We’re only going to loan you 150 million. That haggling has gone on for decades. That’s how it works.

            © Copyright Original Source

            O'Leary is the guy who was on Gutfeld that issued this same warning about developers packing their bags and pulling out of New York in search of greener pastures -- or at least ones not inclined to pull out all stops trying to financially destroy you if you ever piss a powerful politician or two off.

            I predict that this will lead to New York begging for fiscal assistance from the feds in five years.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              O'Leary is the guy who was on Gutfeld that issued this same warning about developers packing their bags and pulling out of New York in search of greener pastures -- or at least ones not inclined to pull out all stops trying to financially destroy you if you ever piss a powerful politician or two off.

              I predict that this will lead to New York begging for fiscal assistance from the feds in five years.
              If it continues, NY City will become like Detroit.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                So no source or context of what O'Leary was actually referring to when he made that statement?

                Here you go. You are welcome:
                Source: https://www.mediaite.com/tv/excuse-me-what-fraud-shark-tanks-kevin-oleary-gets-in-heated-exchange-with-cnns-laura-coates-over-trumps-business-practices/


                O’Leary has been making the media rounds since the judgement came down, claiming that it was going to be bad for business owners who, apparently, commit fraud all the time without it being prosecuted. That was one point O’Leary made during his testy conversation with CNN anchor Laura Coates:

                Coates: I hear about the so-called victimless crimes, but the laws on the books — falsification of business records in the second degree, issuing false financial statements, insurance fraud, conspiracy, and all these different aspects of it — those are actual crimes. I take as your point is that these should not have been prosecuted?

                O’Leary: No, my point is, there’s never been a case like this in 75 years. Everything you just listed off is done by every real estate developer, everywhere on Earth, in every city. This has never, ever been prosecuted.

                O’Leary continued, but Coates latched on to that first point:
                Coates: I do wonder how many people take issue with the idea that every investor is engaged in falsifying business records. Every investor is engaged in what has been accused of Donald Trump and the Trump Organization, because there’s probably a lot who are saying themselves, “I’ve never falsified my business records. I know what a square foot looks like. I know what where I can ask for and what I have the money to support.” So I wonder to what extent that really is true.

                But on the second point, wouldn’t there be many companies who would not want to do business or loan money to people like yourself or investors if they know that they can get away with fraud and there’s no recourse to protect them?

                O’Leary: Excuse me. What fraud? This is not about Trump anymore. When you get a developer that builds a building and he says it’s worth $400 million, and he wants to borrow 200 million from a bank, which happens every day everywhere on Earth, including every American city, every developer is an entrepreneur. They shine the light on their building and they say it’s worth 400. The bank does its own due diligence, as was done in this case, because they’re very good at it, the banks are very good, and they say, no, it’s worth 300. We’re only going to loan you 150 million. That haggling has gone on for decades. That’s how it works.

                © Copyright Original Source

                Context doesn’t disappear this exchange:

                Everything you listed….


                Which is this:
                • Falsification of business records
                • Issuing false financial statements
                • Insurance fraud
                • Conspiracy


                …is done by every real estate developer, everywhere on earth, in every city


                But thank you, Christian, for giving me permission to be a tax cheat. That’s gonna save me a lot of money.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by whag View Post

                  Context doesn’t disappear this exchange:

                  Everything you listed….


                  Which is this:
                  • Falsification of business records
                  • Issuing false financial statements
                  • Insurance fraud
                  • Conspiracy


                  …is done by every real estate developer, everywhere on earth, in every city


                  But thank you, Christian, for giving me permission to be a tax cheat. That’s gonna save me a lot of money.
                  What keeps soaring over your head is that they are not nor have ever been even remotely considered to be any of those things. Well, until last year and for only one person because the government is willing to pinky swear they will never do it to other investors or developers -- at least as long as they keep paying taxes while keeping their heads down and their mouths shut.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    What keeps soaring over your head is that they are not nor have ever been even remotely considered to be any of those things. Well, until last year and for only one person because the government is willing to pinky swear they will never do it to other investors or developers -- at least as long as they keep paying taxes while keeping their heads down and their mouths shut.
                    Thanks for admitting capitalism requires deep circumvention of the law to thrive. That’s what we lefties have been saying all along.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      What keeps soaring over your head is that they are not nor have ever been even remotely considered to be any of those things. Well, until last year and for only one person because the government is willing to pinky swear they will never do it to other investors or developers -- at least as long as they keep paying taxes while keeping their heads down and their mouths shut.
                      If this is referring to Gov. Hochul's comments, we've already established that you're misrepresenting what she said. Repeating a false statement is considerably more incriminating than the first time around.

                      ScreenShot00082.png

                      -Sam
                      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by whag View Post

                        Context doesn’t disappear this exchange:

                        Everything you listed….


                        Which is this:
                        • Falsification of business records
                        • Issuing false financial statements
                        • Insurance fraud
                        • Conspiracy


                        …is done by every real estate developer, everywhere on earth, in every city


                        But thank you, Christian, for giving me permission to be a tax cheat. That’s gonna save me a lot of money.
                        Thank you liberal pawn for admitting you would rather twist what was said out of context in order to troll conservatives rather than accepting the actual truth.


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                          Not that your post isn't misleading.

                          The "everybody does it" is obviously referring to the perfectly normal business practice of a businessman estimating what his properties are worth and then offering them as collateral based on that valuation. The bank will then perform its due diligence and adjust that valuation accordingly. If that's a crime, then literally every business is guilty. This is why business owners throughout New York have started fleeing the state, despite empty reassurances from the governor that they won't be next.
                          Providing false information to lenders to secure loans is a form of financial fraud that has serious legal consequences. Real estate firms have the same access to valuation methodology as the banks, so banks expect the estimates to accord with estimation methodology. This is why real estate professionals actually get licenses:


                          When Deutsche Bank loaned Donald Trump‘s company hundreds of millions of dollars, the bank always followed its own guidelines that include checking out information that would-be borrowers provide, an executive testified Tuesday at the former president’s civil fraud trial.

                          The loans — for projects in Florida, Chicago and Washington, D.C. — are a focus of New York Attorney General Letitia James’ lawsuit contending that Trump and his company deceived lenders and insurers by giving them financial statements that baldly overstated his asset values and overall net worth. The defendants deny the allegations.

                          Deutsche Bank reviewed the financial statements before making the loans through its department that works with rich individuals — a pathway that allowed for more favorable interest rates than likely available from the commercial real estate division, according to the lawsuit. The deals came with conditions about Trump’s net worth and, sometimes, liquidity, and they often required annual submissions of his financial statements.

                          But, testifying for the defense, managing director David Williams said the bankers viewed clients’ reports of their net worth as “subjective or subject to estimates” and took its own view of such financial statements.

                          “I think we expect clients-provided information to be accurate. At the same time, it’s not an industry standard that these statements be audited. They’re largely reliant on the use of estimates,” Williams said, so bankers routinely “make some adjustments.”
                          https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...il-fraud-trial


                          It is comforting to know that I can inflate my property value by, say, $100,000 and count on the bank not checking it. Easy money.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                            Thank you liberal pawn for admitting you would rather twist what was said out of context in order to troll conservatives rather than accepting the actual truth.
                            Says the Christian guy pawning for a fake Christian fraudster:

                            Donald Trump is selling $60 'God Bless the USA' Bibles ahead of Easter

                            Trump has partnered with country music singer Lee Greenwood to sell the $60 patriotic Bibles


                            Make America Pray Again. I’m gonna pray that my next tax cheat doesn’t get audited.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by whag View Post

                              Providing false information to lenders to secure loans is a form of financial fraud that has serious legal consequences. Real estate firms have the same access to valuation methodology as the banks, so banks expect the estimates to accord with estimation methodology. This is why real estate professionals actually get licenses:


                              When Deutsche Bank loaned Donald Trump‘s company hundreds of millions of dollars, the bank always followed its own guidelines that include checking out information that would-be borrowers provide, an executive testified Tuesday at the former president’s civil fraud trial.

                              The loans — for projects in Florida, Chicago and Washington, D.C. — are a focus of New York Attorney General Letitia James’ lawsuit contending that Trump and his company deceived lenders and insurers by giving them financial statements that baldly overstated his asset values and overall net worth. The defendants deny the allegations.

                              Deutsche Bank reviewed the financial statements before making the loans through its department that works with rich individuals — a pathway that allowed for more favorable interest rates than likely available from the commercial real estate division, according to the lawsuit. The deals came with conditions about Trump’s net worth and, sometimes, liquidity, and they often required annual submissions of his financial statements.

                              But, testifying for the defense, managing director David Williams said the bankers viewed clients’ reports of their net worth as “subjective or subject to estimates” and took its own view of such financial statements.

                              “I think we expect clients-provided information to be accurate. At the same time, it’s not an industry standard that these statements be audited. They’re largely reliant on the use of estimates,” Williams said, so bankers routinely “make some adjustments.”
                              https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...il-fraud-trial


                              It is comforting to know that I can inflate my property value by, say, $100,000 and count on the bank not checking it. Easy money.
                              I'm wondering if this thread should be merged with the older thread which is discussing this exact same topic.

                              I see you highlighted the one sentence that you think makes your case while ignoring the sentence in the paragraph right before that undermines it:

                              David Williams said the bankers viewed clients’ reports of their net worth as “subjective or subject to estimates” and took its own view of such financial statements.

                              Anyway, here's what I posted in the parallel discussion:

                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                              Except there was no fraud. The banks are on record saying there was no deceit, and the loans were based on their own independent valuation of Trump's properties:

                              Bankers whom Donald J. Trump is accused of defrauding testified at his civil fraud trial this week that they did not rely on his embellished claims of wealth, lending support to the central plank of the former president’s defense.

                              The New York attorney general, Letitia James, sued Mr. Trump in 2022 for inflating his net worth on his annual financial statements to receive favorable loans from banks, notably including Deutsche Bank. Before the trial, the judge found that the statements were filled with examples of fraud; the trial will determine any consequences the former president may face.

                              Mr. Trump has protested the premise of the case, insisting that the banks did their own due diligence and that misstatements in the financial documents would not have affected the overall terms of the loans. It follows, his lawyers have argued, that the alleged fraud had no victim.

                              The bankers who testified this week supported that argument when asked about the loan process.

                              “We are expected to conduct some due diligence and verify the information provided, to the extent that is possible,” David Williams, a banker in the wealth management group at Deutsche Bank, said on Tuesday. He said repeatedly that the bank had performed that diligence and factored its own analysis into the relationship with Mr. Trump.

                              [...]

                              Mr. Williams testified that Deutsche Bank understood that financial statements like those Mr. Trump submitted relied on estimates. As a result, he said, the bank conducted its own “stress test” and adjusted the numbers downward.

                              https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/29/n...sche-bank.html

                              Another witness for Deutsche Bank, Rosemary Vrablic, said that she did not refer to Trump's financial statements while working out the terms of the loans.

                              For the ruling to make any sense, one has to accept the absurd premise that the banks defrauded themselves.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment

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