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Settlers set sights on Gaza

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  • Settlers set sights on Gaza

    Some of us suspected that it would not take long for the demand for Lebensraum to extend to Gaza and of course like Yehuda Shimon in the article, some believe they have a divine right to the land.

    Although one has to wonder if a few Palestinians will be needed for the more menial tasks - hewers of wood and drawers of water type of thing.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68650815

    Who wouldn't want a house on the beach? For some on Israel's far-right, desirable beachfront now includes the sands of Gaza.

    Just ask Daniella Weiss, 78, the grandmother of Israel's settler movement, who says she already has a list of 500 families ready to move to Gaza immediately.

    "I have friends in Tel Aviv," she says, "so they say, 'Don't forget to keep for me a plot near the coast in Gaza,' because it's a beautiful, beautiful coast, beautiful golden sand".

    She tells them the plots on the coast are already booked.

    Mrs Weiss heads a radical settler organisation called Nachala, or homeland. For decades, she has been kickstarting Jewish settlements in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem, on Palestinian land captured by Israel in the 1967 Middle East war.

    Some in the settler movement have cherished the dream - or pipedream - of returning to Gaza since 2005, when Israel ordered a unilateral pullout, 21 settlements were dismantled and about 9,000 settlers were evacuated by the army. (Reporting from Gaza at the time, I saw many who were literally dragged out.)

    Many settlers saw all this as a betrayal by the state, and a strategic mistake. Opinion polls suggest that most Israelis oppose resettling Gaza, and it is not government policy, but since the Hamas attacks on 7 October it is being talked about out loud - by some of the loudest and most extreme voices in Israel's government.

    Mrs Weiss proudly shows me a map of the West Bank with pink dots indicating Jewish settlements. The dots are scattered all over the map, eating away at land where Palestinians hope - or hoped - to build their state.

    There are about 700,000 Jewish settlers in these areas now and settler numbers are rising fast.

    The vast majority of the international community considers settlements illegal under international law, including the United Nations Security Council. Israel disputes this.

    ​​​​​

    BBC/Goktay Koraltan

    Daniella Weiss does not deny charges of ethnic cleansingWe meet Daniella at her home in the West Bank settlement of Kedumim, where red-roofed houses are spread over hilltops and valleys. She's in constant motion despite having an arm in plaster.

    Her vision for the future of Gaza - now home to 2.3 million Palestinians, many of them starving - is that it will be Jewish.

    "Gaza Arabs will not stay in the Gaza Strip," she says. "Who will stay? Jews."

    She claims that Palestinians want to leave Gaza and that other countries should take them in - although in a lengthy interview, she rarely uses the word "Palestinian".

    "The world is wide," she says. "Africa is big. Canada is big. The world will absorb the people of Gaza. How we do it? We encourage it. Palestinians in Gaza, the good ones, will be enabled. I'm not saying forced, I say enabled because they want to go."

    There is no evidence that Palestinians want to leave their homeland - although many may now dream of escaping temporarily, to save their lives. For most Palestinians, there is no way out. The borders are tightly controlled by Israel and Egypt, and no foreign countries have offered refuge.

    I put it to her that her comments sound like a plan for ethnic cleansing. She does not deny it. "You can call it ethnic cleansing. I repeat again, the Arabs do not want, normal Arabs do not want to live in Gaza. If you want to call it cleansing, if you want to call it apartheid, you choose your definition. I choose the way to protect the state of Israel. "

    A few days later, Daniella Weiss is selling the idea of a return to Gaza over cake and popcorn at a small gathering, hosted by another settler in their living room. She has a projector, showing a new map of Gaza, complete with settlements, and leaflets entitled "Go back to Gaza".

    "People are asking me what the odds are this will happen?" she says.

    "What were the odds back then when I came to these dark mountains and made it into this heaven?"

    The handful in attendance seem already convinced. "I want to go back immediately," says Sarah Manella. "When they call me, I will go back to Gush Katif [the former Israeli settlement bloc in Gaza]."

    What about the people who live there, we ask.

    "The area is empty now, "she replies. "Now you don't need to think where to put the settlement, you only need to come back and put a new settlement."

    ​​​​​

    Some illegal settlements have established their own checkpoints Gaza is far from empty, but much of it has been erased after almost six months of relentless Israeli bombardment.

    It is the "greatest open-air graveyard" in the world, in the words of the EU's foreign policy chief, Josep Borrell.

    More than 32,000 Palestinians have been killed, according to the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza, most of them women and children. The World Health Organization regards the ministry's data as credible.

    For some in the Israeli cabinet, the Palestinian territory - now drenched in blood - is ripe for resettlement. That includes Israel's hard-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir - a settler himself.

    In late January, he made his way through a packed conference hall, slowed by embraces and handshakes. He was among friends - about 1,000 ultranationalists pushing for a return to Gaza at the event entitled Settlement Brings Security.

    Mr Ben Gvir, who favours "encouraging emigration", was among a dozen cabinet ministers in attendance.

    "It's time to go back home," he said from the stage, to loud applause. "It's time to return to the land of Israel. If we don't want another 7 October, we need to return home and control the land."

    In the shade of a sprawling tree, Yehuda Shimon is playing with his two young sons, who are in hammocks, hanging from the branches.

    He has raised 10 children here in a settler outpost in the West Bank called Havat Gilad, or Gilad's Farm, near the Palestinian city of Nablus. All around him there are Palestinian villages, the nearest 500m away. There is no contact between them, he says.

    ​​​​​

    Yehuda Shimon says Gaza must be Jewish Shimon has lived in Gaza in the past and claims a God-given right to return. "We must do it. It's part of Israel area," he says. "This is the land that God gave us, and you couldn't go to God and tell him, 'OK you gave me, and I gave to other people.' No. I believe in the end we will go back to Gaza."

    I ask what this means for the Palestinians.

    "They have 52 other places to go in the world," he says, "52 Muslim countries". He says the new Gaza will be "another Tel Aviv". Outposts like his are multiplying in the West Bank, along with larger settlements, fragmenting Palestinian territory and stoking tension.

    Settler attacks on Palestinians have surged since 7 October according to the UN, which has long condemned settlements as "an obstacle to peace". And now settler organisations have their eyes on Gaza once again.

    Is there a real prospect of settlers reaching the beachfront in Gaza?

    A seasoned Israeli journalist told me it won't happen. "Calls to resettle Gaza won't be translated into policy," he said.

    Then he added: "Famous last words."
    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

  • #2
    Gaza? Wasn't that land that Israel turned over in an effort to secure peace? Even evicted Jewish settlers from the land. How did that work out for them?

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
      Some of us suspected that it would not take long for the demand for Lebensraum to extend to Gaza and of course like Yehuda Shimon in the article, some believe they have a divine right to the land.

      Although one has to wonder if a few Palestinians will be needed for the more menial tasks - hewers of wood and drawers of water type of thing.
      You really do hate Jews don't you. Why not tell us what Hamas leaders say they want to do to the Jews and with the land? Why do you keep starting anti Semitic threads?
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        Gaza? Wasn't that land that Israel turned over in an effort to secure peace?
        Go back a little further in history.

        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
          Go back a little further in history.
          To when they gained control of the land from Egypt after the latter's attack on them?

          And yet, they still turned it back over in order to secure peace. So, again, how is that working out for Israel?

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            To when they gained control of the land from Egypt after the latter's attack on them?

            And yet, they still turned it back over in order to secure peace. So, again, how is that working out for Israel?
            Keeping it as a form of open prison did hot help matters.

            However, some of us guessed that there would be a demand for extending Lebensraum for the new Herrenvolk.
            Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 03-26-2024, 10:09 AM.
            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

              Keeping it as a form of open prison did hot help matters.
              It wasn't an open prison you dolt. And you know it - Israel had embargos because Hamas was importing weapons and using humanitarian aide to do it. You really are anti Jewish..
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                Keeping it as a form of open prison did hot help matters.

                However, some of us guessed that there would be a demand for extending Lebensraum for the new Herrenvolk.
                What a devious plan. First hand it over and then decades later wage a bloody costly battle to take it back.

                Another medicine mix up on your part?

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  To when they gained control of the land from Egypt after the latter's attack on them?
                  No, further. Go to Bibi’s timeline:

                  “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember.”


                  What do you think of that?

                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  And yet, they still turned it back over in order to secure peace. So, again, how is that working out for Israel?
                  How did the slaughter of the Amalekites work out for them? How’s the current slaughter of 14,000 working out for them?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    Keeping it as a form of open prison did hot help matters.

                    However, some of us guessed that there would be a demand for extending Lebensraum for the new Herrenvolk.
                    Nobody is forced to stay there. And apparently according to your own article, it seems to be prime real estate. Maybe if Hamas stopped wasting all their efforts and money on trying to destroy Israel, they could build up the area and make profit with some beach front resorts and villas.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by whag View Post

                      No, further. Go to Bibi’s timeline:

                      “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember.”


                      What do you think of that?
                      The Palestinians are typically associated with the Canaanites and not the Amalekites. Netanyahu was comparing what the Amaleks did to what Hamas did. He wasn't saying they were the same people.

                      Originally posted by whag View Post
                      How did the slaughter of the Amalekites work out for them?
                      Given that there are few if any people today thought to be descended from them (the Palestinians are supposed to be Canaanites and maybe Philistines although many are actually Syrian, Iraqi and Egyptian by ancestry), I'd say fairly well.

                      Further, did the Amalekites ever turn over a sizeable portion of their land to Israel seeking peace, only for Israel to launch attack after attack on them? That's yet another way your attempt at comparison falls flat.

                      Originally posted by whag View Post
                      How’s the current slaughter of 14,000 working out for them?
                      Funny how that number seems to shrink as the war wages. At one point the claimed casualties were much higher.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                        Nobody is forced to stay there. And apparently according to your own article, it seems to be prime real estate. Maybe if Hamas stopped wasting all their efforts and money on trying to destroy Israel, they could build up the area and make profit with some beach front resorts and villas.
                        I have no idea whereabouts in the USA you live but if the area where you live was deemed prime real estate by some recent immigrants to the USA, would you be happy to leave it to them?
                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          What a devious plan. First hand it over and then decades later wage a bloody costly battle to take it back.

                          Another medicine mix up on your part?
                          . https://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/2..._for_treatment

                          The blockade Israel has been imposing on the Gaza Strip for more than 15 years has crushed Gaza’s healthcare system. The level of medical services available falls far short of residents’ needs, and there is a constant shortage of medicines and medical equipment. In 2022, as in previous years, patients who need medical care unavailable in Gaza are the ones to pay the price: Israel forces them to file for permits to leave the Gaza Strip in an exhausting bureaucratic process, extending also to the persons accompanying them. The criteria for approving these requests are unknown and the grounds for rejection are never disclosed. Many of the requests go unanswered, and patients must apply time and again without knowing whether they will ever get the permit they desperately need to reach hospital in the West Bank, East Jerusalem or Israel.

                          In keeping with its past policy, Israel rejected thousands of applications in 2022, denying more than 20,000 requests by patients and persons escorting them to access medical care in hospitals outside Gaza. Some applicants received no answer at all by the scheduled appointment.

                          According to World Health Organization (WHO) figures, 20,411 applications for medical exit permits from the Gaza Strip were submitted in 2022. About 51% were for treatment in East Jerusalem hospitals, about 31% for hospitals elsewhere in the West Bank, and about 18% for hospitals within Israel. The Israeli DCO rejected 6,848 (34%) of the applications, in some cases directly informing patients their application was denied and in others providing no response before the scheduled appointment. Of the applications submitted, 9,641 were for women, 2,935 (30%) of which were rejected; 6,254 were for minors, 1,906 (30%) of which were rejected; and 3,875 were for patients over the age of 60, 843 (22%) of which were rejected. Additionally, 219 patients were called in for interrogation by the Israel Security Agency at Erez Crossing as a condition for examining their application, including 66 cancer patients, 38 women, and 26 patients over the age of 60. The vast majority of these – 91% – were rejected.


                          [sarcasm] Another group that is quite obviously anti-Semitic and anti- Israeli.

                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            . https://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/2..._for_treatment

                            The blockade Israel has been imposing on the Gaza Strip for more than 15 years has crushed Gaza’s healthcare system. The level of medical services available falls far short of residents’ needs, and there is a constant shortage of medicines and medical equipment. In 2022, as in previous years, patients who need medical care unavailable in Gaza are the ones to pay the price: Israel forces them to file for permits to leave the Gaza Strip in an exhausting bureaucratic process, extending also to the persons accompanying them. The criteria for approving these requests are unknown and the grounds for rejection are never disclosed. Many of the requests go unanswered, and patients must apply time and again without knowing whether they will ever get the permit they desperately need to reach hospital in the West Bank, East Jerusalem or Israel.

                            In keeping with its past policy, Israel rejected thousands of applications in 2022, denying more than 20,000 requests by patients and persons escorting them to access medical care in hospitals outside Gaza. Some applicants received no answer at all by the scheduled appointment.

                            According to World Health Organization (WHO) figures, 20,411 applications for medical exit permits from the Gaza Strip were submitted in 2022. About 51% were for treatment in East Jerusalem hospitals, about 31% for hospitals elsewhere in the West Bank, and about 18% for hospitals within Israel. The Israeli DCO rejected 6,848 (34%) of the applications, in some cases directly informing patients their application was denied and in others providing no response before the scheduled appointment. Of the applications submitted, 9,641 were for women, 2,935 (30%) of which were rejected; 6,254 were for minors, 1,906 (30%) of which were rejected; and 3,875 were for patients over the age of 60, 843 (22%) of which were rejected. Additionally, 219 patients were called in for interrogation by the Israel Security Agency at Erez Crossing as a condition for examining their application, including 66 cancer patients, 38 women, and 26 patients over the age of 60. The vast majority of these – 91% – were rejected.


                            [sarcasm] Another group that is quite obviously anti-Semitic and anti- Israeli.
                            It would seem if they stopped launching attacks that there would be no blockade. Funny how that works.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              It would seem if they stopped launching attacks that there would be no blockade. Funny how that works.

                              And why do the Palestinians have so much historical resentment?
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment

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