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Equating WW2 actions with Gaza Siege actions

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  • Equating WW2 actions with Gaza Siege actions

    In another thread, seer said the Gaza siege is no more a crime against humanity than our actions in WW2. Soyboi Juvenal kicked him out right when I was keyed up with the perfect response.

    Now I’ve forgotten my response. Seer, you go first.


  • #2
    Originally posted by whag View Post
    In another thread, seer said the Gaza siege is no more a crime against humanity than our actions in WW2. Soyboi Juvenal kicked him out right when I was keyed up with the perfect response.

    Now I’ve forgotten my response. Seer, you go first.
    Let me first ask you whag, which I asked in another thread. Do countries generally feed and give aid to countries they are at war with? I can't remember this happening in history. Yet you all expect Israel to do exactly that, and if they don't the Jews are particularly evil for not doing so.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by seer View Post

      Let me first ask you whag, which I asked in another thread. Do countries generally feed and give aid to countries they are at war with? I can't remember this happening in history. Yet you all expect Israel to do exactly that, and if they don't the Jews are particularly evil for not doing so.
      But what would Jesus do?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by whag View Post

        But what would Jesus do?
        I don't think that seer will be able to tell you much truth about Jesus.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          Do countries generally feed and give aid to countries they are at war with?
          Israel has never in its history recognized any Palestinian country, but has been vehement in its demands that the Palestinians recognize Israel as a country.

          Israel, by its own definitions, is not at war with a country.

          I can't remember this happening in history.
          US grain sales to the USSR during the cold war come to mind.

          But let's consider a more recent conflict: The US in Afghanistan. The US's stated target was not Afghanistan the country itself, but specifically the Taliban within the country. This nicely parallels Israel's target of Hamas within Gaza, but not Gaza itself. As the US fought the Taliban within Afghanistan, did they provide aid to the general populace in Afghanistan? Yes. This site puts the economic aid that the US gave to Afghanistan in the post-2001 period at $39 billion USD. That's during a period when the US had troops in the country, deployed against the Taliban.

          In general, when you are not fighting against the country itself, but rather against a regime you have ousted or a terrorist group within the country, deploying aid to civilians during the fighting is exactly what you do. Because you want to get them on side, and because your war isn't with them. I suspect you would be hard pressed to find any instance where the attacker claims to be attacking a group within the country and not the country itself, where the attacker hasn't made some sort of good-faith gesture towards the civilians in the country in the form of some sort of aid.

          Yet you all expect Israel to do exactly that
          Yes, because everyone else does.

          Also, Israel specific is subject to the recent ICJ court order specifically requiring them to stop blocking aid, as part of the steps they were ordered to take to stop a genocide happening. You would honestly think that if Israel had any moral compass or any shame whatsoever that they would care about the topic of genocide, and that they of all people in the world would want to make it absolutely crystal clear to everyone that they hated the very idea of genocide and would absolutely never ever remotely do it themselves, so would be careful to follow such a court order to the letter. Yet the very day after the ICJ ordered them to stop blocking aid because it looked like they might be doing a genocide, Israel turned around and make false denouncements of the UN aid organisation providing the majority of the aid to the Gazans. Israel has subsequently blocked aid even more, subsequently slaughtered hundreds of civilians accessing that aid, and now Gazan children are dying daily of starvation, making it no longer in any reasonable doubt that Israel is doing a genocide.
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by whag View Post
            In another thread, seer said the Gaza siege is no more a crime against humanity than our actions in WW2.
            It's interesting he points to all the worst incidents of WWII, incidents where historians and military and legal scholars since then have generally agreed that they were war crimes and not justified and should never be repeated... and he says "look, Israel doing that sort of thing now is Totally Fine cos it was done during WWII". It's like he's literally learnt nothing from history whatsoever.

            And I'd also point out, that during a world war there's perhaps some moral leeway for making decisions that wouldn't be acceptable under any other circumstances. If you're in a desperate, world wide, multi-year war more extreme than anything previously experienced in human history, and if all your options are terrible, the death count horrendous, then perhaps you can consider actions that you wouldn't consider humane or reasonable under any other circumstances. Israel, however, is absolutely not in that circumstance. They had a relatively small amount of deaths in a one-off attack. They're well aware Hamas doesn't have the ability to repeat that attack, regardless of any Hamas fools boosting otherwise. That's not remotely the same situation as the hell of WWII. It doesn't give Israel anything remotely close to the same moral leeway to be barbaric.
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by whag View Post
              In another thread, seer said the Gaza siege is no more a crime against humanity than our actions in WW2. Soyboi Juvenal kicked him out right when I was keyed up with the perfect response.

              Now I’ve forgotten my response. Seer, you go first.
              Seer seems oblivious of the Geneva conventions of 1949 and their additional protocols.

              Under article 55 of the fourth Geneva convention, Israel, as a belligerent occupying power in Gaza is legally responsible for ensuring the food and medical supplies of the population. That requires the occupier to "bring in the necessary foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the occupied territory are inadequate".

              It seems that seer would have no qualms if the Israeli regime adopted the same position towards the Palestinians in Gaza as the Nazis did to the Jews of the Warsaw ghetto.

              And he has made it abundantly clear that he offers his untrammelled support for a nation state that defies and ignores international law.

              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Let me first ask you whag, which I asked in another thread. Do countries generally feed and give aid to countries they are at war with? I can't remember this happening in history.
                Here's one example: Most countries have permitted the transfer of Red Cross parcels and similar aid into countries they were at war with. The Nazis allowed Red Cross parcels to be sent from Allied countries to inmates of the concentration camps, including Buchenwald and Auschwitz.

                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  Israel has never in its history recognized any Palestinian country, but has been vehement in its demands that the Palestinians recognize Israel as a country.

                  Israel, by its own definitions, is not at war with a country.

                  US grain sales to the USSR during the cold war come to mind.

                  But let's consider a more recent conflict: The US in Afghanistan. The US's stated target was not Afghanistan the country itself, but specifically the Taliban within the country. This nicely parallels Israel's target of Hamas within Gaza, but not Gaza itself. As the US fought the Taliban within Afghanistan, did they provide aid to the general populace in Afghanistan? Yes. This site puts the economic aid that the US gave to Afghanistan in the post-2001 period at $39 billion USD. That's during a period when the US had troops in the country, deployed against the Taliban.
                  The question has to be asked - "How effective were US actions in Afghanistan?" And that was in a country where the enemy did not have wide-spread support among the population. Should Israel follow a pattern that proved such an abject failure and expect a different result?

                  This is siege warfare at its goriest. Near as I can tell Israel is not pursuing a policy of genocide, but is not interested in a negotiated peace - the end game is to gain an unconditional surrender. It is not about winning, it is about eliminating the need to go to war against this opponent again.

                  Normally, I don't respond to anything on these threads because it will seem that I am expressing support for Israel's actions. That is not the case.



                  1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                  .
                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                  Scripture before Tradition:
                  but that won't prevent others from
                  taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                  of the right to call yourself Christian.

                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                    The question has to be asked - "How effective were US actions in Afghanistan?" And that was in a country where the enemy did not have wide-spread support among the population. Should Israel follow a pattern that proved such an abject failure and expect a different result?

                    This is siege warfare at its goriest. Near as I can tell Israel is not pursuing a policy of genocide, but is not interested in a negotiated peace - the end game is to gain an unconditional surrender. It is not about winning, it is about eliminating the need to go to war against this opponent again.

                    Normally, I don't respond to anything on these threads because it will seem that I am expressing support for Israel's actions. That is not the case.


                    And if this Israeli administration and its supporters really believe that this present conflict will eliminate the need to go to war against Hamas, or its equivalent, in the future then they are completely delusional. From among those traumatised teens and older children will be found the next generation of suicide bombers and militants.

                    One could opine that Netanyahu and his ilk merely want to continue the bloodshed on both sides.
                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by whag View Post

                      But what would Jesus do?
                      You didn't answer the question. And I don't know, would Jesus want the Jewish state wiped out? Was He not the God in the Old Testament too? The God of the Book of Revelation? The God of the Bible is not fundamentally opposed to self-defense.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post

                        Also, Israel specific is subject to the recent ICJ court order specifically requiring them to stop blocking aid, as part of the steps they were ordered to take to stop a genocide happening. You would honestly think that if Israel had any moral compass or any shame whatsoever that they would care about the topic of genocide, and that they of all people in the world would want to make it absolutely crystal clear to everyone that they hated the very idea of genocide and would absolutely never ever remotely do it themselves, so would be careful to follow such a court order to the letter. Yet the very day after the ICJ ordered them to stop blocking aid because it looked like they might be doing a genocide, Israel turned around and make false denouncements of the UN aid organisation providing the majority of the aid to the Gazans. Israel has subsequently blocked aid even more, subsequently slaughtered hundreds of civilians accessing that aid, and now Gazan children are dying daily of starvation, making it no longer in any reasonable doubt that Israel is doing a genocide.
                        And what happened in Afghanistan? We lost, ran with our tail between our legs. Tell me Star, how else does Israel destroy Hamas who are tightly imbedded in the civilian population? And you really don't believe that Hamas is grabbing much of this food and aid?
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Roy View Post
                          Here's one example: Most countries have permitted the transfer of Red Cross parcels and similar aid into countries they were at war with. The Nazis allowed Red Cross parcels to be sent from Allied countries to inmates of the concentration camps, including Buchenwald and Auschwitz.
                          No, we were not actually feeding our enemies. And those prisoners were no threat to Germany.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            And if this Israeli administration and its supporters really believe that this present conflict will eliminate the need to go to war against Hamas, or its equivalent, in the future then they are completely delusional. From among those traumatised teens and older children will be found the next generation of suicide bombers and militants.

                            One could opine that Netanyahu and his ilk merely want to continue the bloodshed on both sides.
                            Are we still fighting Nazis and Japanese you dolt? Is Israel still fighting Jordan or Egypt?
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seer View Post

                              Are we still fighting Nazis and Japanese you dolt? Is Israel still fighting Jordan or Egypt?
                              You should place a regular order.

                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment

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