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Are Palestinians "reaping what they sowed" on Oct 7th?

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  • Originally posted by seer View Post

    Right, a quick death is the best.
    Indeed.

    .
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Terms of endearment...
    At least try and be honest


    Originally posted by seer View Post

    How is that a 'pious cant?'
    Our exchange has nothing to do with your personal religious beliefs.

    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Some Christians had that prejudice.
    It was institutionalised and incorporated into secular legislation.

    Originally posted by seer View Post
    You are still attacking one of the most persecuted peoples in history.
    Most persecuted by your religion and no I am not attacking the Jews. I am criticising the actions of the Israeli state and judging from the recent demonstrations in Israel over this last weekend I am not alone.

    Originally posted by seer View Post
    You even told me they don't deserve their own defendable State
    You appear to be confusing me with Starlight.

    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Apples and oranges
    No it is not. It is precisely the same "logic" that you apply to anyone Jew or non Jew who criticises any action by the State of Israel. So using your own logic you and all those other Americans who post here criticising aspects of the USA are self-loathing/self hating Americans. And those of us who are not US citizens and who post criticisms of the USA must be anti-American.
    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
      .
      At least try and be honest
      Like you? Well that isn't a high bar...


      Our exchange has nothing to do with your personal religious beliefs.
      I was making the point that those who persecuted Jews were not following Biblical mandates.

      It was institutionalised and incorporated into secular legislation.
      Where? In the Eastern Church, Coptic Church, every Catholic Church or country?

      Most persecuted by your religion and no I am not attacking the Jews. I am criticizing the actions of the Israeli state and judging from the recent demonstrations in Israel over this last weekend I am not alone.
      If you are not following Biblical truths, you are not acting in the name of my religion. And again, even before Israel entered Gaza you were criticizing the Jews, never once in all these months did you start a thread attacking the Muslims. You are a Jew Hater HA, admit it..

      You appear to be confusing me with Starlight.
      When I said that the Arabs should have accepted the UN two state solution in 48 you said - why should they!

      No it is not. It is precisely the same "logic" that you apply to anyone Jew or non Jew who criticises any action by the State of Israel. So using your own logic you and all those other Americans who post here criticising aspects of the USA are self-loathing/self hating Americans. And those of us who are not US citizens and who post criticisms of the USA must be anti-American.
      Don't try to cover your anti Semitism with deflection. And you probably are anti American.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seer View Post

        Like you? Well that isn't a high bar...
        Again unnecessary derogatory language is duly noted


        Originally posted by seer View Post

        I was making the point that those who persecuted Jews were not following Biblical mandates.
        The texts were there in the NT. The Jews were the deicides.

        Originally posted by seer View Post

        Where? In the Eastern Church, Coptic Church, every Catholic Church or country?
        Yes. Read some history of Christian anti-Semitism. Jeremy Cohen, a historian based at the University of Tel Aviv, writes of both his own mother, and his mother-in-law being attacked in the USA of the 1930s

        From the Introduction in his book Christ-killers: The Jews and the Passion from the Bible to the Big Screen

        Within forty or fifty years of the crucifixion, Christians held the Jews and their leaders responsible for the death of their saviour. [...]

        Thus told and retold the story of the Jewish Christ-killer has never ceased to affect the lives of real men and women. In the second century a bishop used it to fuel the hatred of Judaism among Christians in his own community. Crusaders invoked it in attacking Jews before they even left Europe for the Holy Land. Jews of thirteenth century Paris were dumbstruck with fear when it appeared on the agenda for a disputation. [...]

        Growing up in New York City during the 1930s my mother was sandbagged on Halloween by youths seeking to punish the Christ killers. The same year in Peoria, Illinois, my mother-in-law had to plead her innocence before her schoolmates; how could she have killed Jesus if she had never known him?


        And Harpo Marx in his autobiography Harpo Speaks writes of being beaten up in the street by boys from Irish backgrounds because he was a Jew and the Jews killed Jesus.

        Originally posted by seer View Post
        If you are not following Biblical truths, you are not acting in the name of my religion.
        Then since the last quarter of the first century your religion has been heretical.


        Originally posted by seer View Post
        When I said that the Arabs should have accepted the UN two state solution in 48 you said - why should they!
        And I qualified it by writing that the better suggestion would have been to form one state with everyone having equal rights. However, Ben Gurion had made it plain his writings from the 1930s that the Arabs would have to go

        Originally posted by seer View Post

        Don't try to cover your anti Semitism with deflection. And you probably are anti American.
        Hardly. I have American family.
        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

          The texts were there in the NT. The Jews were the deicides.
          Again, Christ came to die for our sins. Jews, Romans, and every sinner is responsible.

          Yes. Read some history of Christian anti-Semitism. Jeremy Cohen, a historian based at the University of Tel Aviv, writes of both his own mother, and his mother-in-law being attacked in the USA of the 1930s

          From the Introduction in his book Christ-killers: The Jews and the Passion from the Bible to the Big Screen

          Within forty or fifty years of the crucifixion, Christians held the Jews and their leaders responsible for the death of their saviour. [...]

          Thus told and retold the story of the Jewish Christ-killer has never ceased to affect the lives of real men and women. In the second century a bishop used it to fuel the hatred of Judaism among Christians in his own community. Crusaders invoked it in attacking Jews before they even left Europe for the Holy Land. Jews of thirteenth century Paris were dumbstruck with fear when it appeared on the agenda for a disputation. [...]

          Growing up in New York City during the 1930s my mother was sandbagged on Halloween by youths seeking to punish the Christ killers. The same year in Peoria, Illinois, my mother-in-law had to plead her innocence before her schoolmates; how could she have killed Jesus if she had never known him?


          And Harpo Marx in his autobiography Harpo Speaks writes of being beaten up in the street by boys from Irish backgrounds because he was a Jew and the Jews killed Jesus.

          Then since the last quarter of the first century your religion has been heretical.
          Right and you keep adding to Jew hatred! And you just did again in a new thread!
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • Originally posted by seer View Post
            At least try and be honest
            Like you? Well that isn't a high bar...
            It's one you've failed to achieve.
            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by seer View Post
              Again, Christ came to die for our sins. Jews, Romans, and every sinner is responsible.
              Absolute BS. It's BS if you accept Christianity, and it's BS if you don't. It's BS if it refers to ancient people, and even more BS if to modern people.

              This is the bigoted ignorance that leads to antisemitism, and it's being spouted by some-one who claims others are anti-Semitic.

              It's so bad that it should receive instant condemnation from everyone, Christian or not.
              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by seer View Post

                Again, Christ came to die for our sins. Jews, Romans, and every sinner is responsible.



                Right and you keep adding to Jew hatred! And you just did again in a new thread!
                I am criticising the actions of an administration in reducing the freedom of the press.
                "It ain't necessarily so
                The things that you're liable
                To read in the Bible
                It ain't necessarily so
                ."

                Sportin' Life
                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post

                  Again, Christ came to die for our sins. Jews, Romans, and every sinner is responsible.


                  Was Harpo Marx a Jew hater? Is Jeremy Cohen a Jew hater?
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                    True. I eventually took everyone off ignore because I might miss portions of discussion (although the quote feature is impossible to ignore). I found it best to just not respond to trolls, unless they eventually come to their senses.



                    The only time I was ever banned was when C*** banned me simply for posting on A*** . I had to laugh about that. They were a vindictive bunch.
                    I've got you beat. I was banned from the same place for the same reason, but also from... eh... I think it was "Christian Forums," but not the current version. I don't recall what I said or did.
                    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                    Beige Federalist.

                    Nationalist Christian.

                    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                    Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                    Justice for Matthew Perna!

                    Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                      Absolute BS. It's BS if you accept Christianity, and it's BS if you don't. It's BS if it refers to ancient people, and even more BS if to modern people.

                      This is the bigoted ignorance that leads to antisemitism, and it's being spouted by some-one who claims others are anti-Semitic.

                      It's so bad that it should receive instant condemnation from everyone, Christian or not.
                      I see nothing wrong with what he said, and I have no idea how you perceive bigotry or antisemitism there.
                      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                      Beige Federalist.

                      Nationalist Christian.

                      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                      Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                      Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                      Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                      Justice for Matthew Perna!

                      Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                      Comment


                      • Count me among those who think the whole idea of "war crimes" is a bit silly. I'm with James T. Kirk in "A Taste of Armageddon," favoring a return of "the horrors of war." War is horrible, and attempts to sanitize it only take away reasons to avoid it. Either avoid it, or go all-in, where the greatest "war crime" is failing to do enough to win.
                        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                        Beige Federalist.

                        Nationalist Christian.

                        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                        Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                        Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                        Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                        Justice for Matthew Perna!

                        Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                          Count me among those who think the whole idea of "war crimes" is a bit silly. I'm with James T. Kirk in "A Taste of Armageddon," favoring a return of "the horrors of war." War is horrible, and attempts to sanitize it only take away reasons to avoid it. Either avoid it, or go all-in, where the greatest "war crime" is failing to do enough to win.
                          I agree that war is horrific. For that reason I think wars are almost never morally justifiable, and I think participation in them is generally deeply immoral. I'm pretty strongly against war in general for that reason.

                          I do think though that it's fair to separate out run-of-the-mill war, from actions that are not even justifiable given the existence of a war. So I do tend to think war crimes are a reasonable and logical category.

                          I'm also really deeply disturbed by the number of people who have both the positions of:
                          - "War is totally awful in and of itself, so calling a bad form of it a 'war crime' is pointless given how bad the rest of it is"
                          - And who, generally speaking, don't particularly object to wars happening, or being started.

                          A mind-blowing number of US right-wingers in the present day seem to endorse both, which is sickening. Including Trump, and many posters in this forum. I worry that includes you.

                          People who think that it doesn't take much to validate having a war, and think that once a war is going you're justified in doing literally anything, are just demonically evil IMO.
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                            I see nothing wrong with what he said, and I have no idea how you perceive bigotry or antisemitism there.
                            If you can't see how saying Jews are responsible for Jesus's death leads to antisemitism, I can't help you.
                            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              Maybe don't credulously believe things read on the internet?

                              I don't remotely agree that "this is Totally The Only way to stop such attacks, Trust Us Bro" turns something that would otherwise be a war crime into not a war crime.

                              Firstly, even in the hypothetical scenario that doing a war crime is indeed required to stop a different war crime, I don't think that makes it not a war crime/

                              Secondly, every evil person and bad faith actor since the beginning of time has used the "I had to do it" excuse. So I have nothing but contempt for the Israeli government when they try and play the "we Totally Had To do it" card - it's what evil psychos use. In the real world in lengthy strategic conflicts there are always lots and lots of options and are never ever "it was the only way" situations. I'd say there's 0.0% chance any "it was the only way" claims are true.
                              An Army's first mission is to defend it's citizens. If that means killing an enemy's citizens because the enemy army is hiding behind their skirts while lobbing bombs at you then that is allowed. What's the alternative? Just let them kill your citizens? Which is exactly what Hamas is trying to do. Why aren't you complaining about Hamas lobbing missiles at Israeli civilians? Or kidnapping them? Or raping and murdering them in the streets and their homes? Israel is just supposed to take that and not respond because Hamas is hiding behind hostages and their own women and children?
                              Last edited by Sparko; 04-04-2024, 01:08 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                                An Army's first mission is to defend it's citizens. If that means killing an enemy's citizens because the enemy army is hiding behind their skirts while lobbing bombs at you then that is allowed. What's the alternative? Just let them kill your citizens? Which is exactly what Hamas is trying to do. Why aren't you complaining about Hamas lobbing missiles at Israeli civilians? Or kidnapping them? Or raping and murdering them in the streets and their homes? Israel is just supposed to take that and not respond because Hamas is hiding behind hostages and their own women and children?
                                Congratulations, you've justified terrorist action, including the Hamas Oct. 7 attacks. Once you can designate an enemy, you're free to attack their civilian population on the rationale that soldiers go home to their families or mix with the non-military population.

                                -Sam
                                "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                                Comment

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