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Could Democracy end in the USA? Would Christians like a Theocracy?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    That, I believe, is a large part of the present problem. We have made them nearly synonymous when they stand for two different things. This is a significant portion of the reason that so many folks are now confused about popular vote, electoral colleges, and even freedom of speech.
    EGGzackly - yet another safeguard to protect us from "majority rules" or "mob rules".
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

      The key is that we are not a direct democracy in any sense of the word, which is what most people seem to have in mind when they say "democracy", as in "the majority rules".
      Even the fact that we have an Electoral College system shows that the founding fathers never intended for "majority rule" in that sense.
      That's a bit of an exaggeration. There was a great deal of debate over that Electoral College - specifically because of the spectre it presents of minority rule., it's primary purpose was to give some semblance of balance to the voice of rural areas which have very different needs than urban areas, when a fully democratic system would tend to favor city dwellers over farmers simply because of the greater concentration of population.

      What is happening today, however, is that some political forces have chosen to use that system to purposfully unbalance the voices of the people, aiming for full on minority rule.

      Indeed, and while one can be legitimately concerned about 'mob rule', minority rule is even worse. That leads to the creation of an elite ruling class that oppresses the majority.
      Typically the rich upper class.

      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

        That's a bit of an exaggeration. There was a great deal of debate over that Electoral College - specifically because of the spectre it presents of minority rule., it's primary purpose was to give some semblance of balance to the voice of rural areas which have very different needs than urban areas, when a fully democratic system would tend to favor city dwellers over farmers simply because of the greater concentration of population.

        What is happening today, however, is that some political forces have chosen to use that system to purposfully unbalance the voices of the people, aiming for full on minority rule.

        Indeed, and while one can be legitimately concerned about 'mob rule', minority rule is even worse. That leads to the creation of an elite ruling class that oppresses the majority.
        Typically the rich upper class.
        "Some" political forces? Jim, everybody in politics knows that the electoral college is how you become President, and BOTH sides play to that. It's CLEARLY not about the "majority of votes", but about how many electoral college votes one secures.
        We keep hearing things like "Well, X got more a million more votes than Y", but that's like saying the Houston Astros got more hits than the Atlanta Braves. Everybody in baseball knows it's not just the number of hits, but the runs scored.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

          No, the point is that we do NOT have a democracy in the sense that "majority rules". MAJOR difference.
          So, whoever said we do. We call it a democracy because it is short for representative democracy. So what are you always whining about? You just dont appreciate people calling it a democracy? You think its no longer functioning as it was intended or what? What's your beef?

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          • #50
            Originally posted by JimL View Post
            So, whoever said we do. We call it a democracy because it is short for representative democracy.
            Ah, you've been paying attention and learning a thing or two!!!

            So what are you always whining about?
            It always amuses me when people try to project "whining" on people who simply do not whine.

            You just dont appreciate people calling it a democracy?
            Because it's a Republic.

            You think its no longer functioning as it was intended or what?
            Yes, I believe our founders intended our country to be run by citizen legislators who would serve in office then go home to serve under the laws they enacted.
            Instead, we have a bunch of corrupt crooked rich politicians who have gorged themselves on the public largess, doing anything and everything to keep themselves in power.

            What's your beef?
            Lately, Sirloin, though I enjoy a good New York Strip from time to time.



            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

              No, the point is that we do NOT have a democracy in the sense that "majority rules". MAJOR difference.
              But the majority does rule within the guidelines of the Constitution. Why do you think we vote on different issues, so that the minority wins? Duh!

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              • #52
                Originally posted by JimL View Post

                But the majority does rule within the guidelines of the Constitution. Why do you think we vote on different issues, so that the minority wins? Duh!
                There's a reason you're near the top of my prayer list.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                  There WILL be a worldwide theocracy some day, and I for one can hardly wait.
                  It only took several billion deaths to get there (if we ever do). Very efficient!

                  BTW, are you referring to Jesus' millennial reign?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    There's a reason you're near the top of my prayer list.
                    There's a reason, which is very obvious, that you choose to evade directly answering to what's posted.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      Yes, ma'am - it has devolved.



                      Except that quite a number of them were "enlightened" by the Creator.

                      george-washington.jpgContinental-Congress-Prayer_-1024x514.jpg


                      Many were deist. All of them died unenlightened by the simple truth that slavery would have lasting consequences for the order of the nation. Very wise men.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by whag View Post
                        Many were deist.
                        Some were.

                        All of them died unenlightened by the simple truth that slavery would have lasting consequences for the order of the nation.
                        Perhaps you could start a thread on that.

                        Very wise men.
                        Yes, they were.

                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Folks regularly call for an end to democracy here largely because we aren't one and were never intended to be one. We are a constitutional republic or a democratic republic. A democracy is mob rule -- where two wolves and a sheep vote on what's for dinner. A democracy is where you can trample all over the rights of minorities because majority rules.
                          And what is a Republic? I always see you anti-democracy types telling us what a democracy is, usually using the two wolves and the sheep analogy. But you never seem to define what a Republic is or how the current U.S government which is always defind as a democracy, differs from the Republic as it was intended by the Founders. I mean what is it that you all are always clambering about this American democracy that you don't like, or that differs from its original intent?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by JimL View Post

                            And what is a Republic? I always see you anti-democracy types telling us what a democracy is, usually using the two wolves and the sheep analogy. But you never seem to define what a Republic is or how the current U.S government which is always defind as a democracy, differs from the Republic as it was intended by the Founders. I mean what is it that you all are always clambering about this American democracy that you don't like, or that differs from its original intent?
                            Yea, he’s really beaten that wolf/sheep metaphor to death. He got that from talking heads on conservative radio and TV, then started repeating it verbatim every chance he got.


                            republic, form of government in which a state is ruled by representatives of the citizenbody. Modern republics are founded on the idea that sovereignty rests with the people, though who is included and excluded from the category of the people has varied across history. Because citizens do not govern the state themselves but through representatives, republics may be distinguished from direct democracy, though modern representative democracies are by and large republics. The term republic may also be applied to any form of government in which the head of state is not a hereditary monarch.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by JimL View Post

                              And what is a Republic? I always see you anti-democracy types telling us what a democracy is, usually using the two wolves and the sheep analogy. But you never seem to define what a Republic is or how the current U.S government which is always defind as a democracy, differs from the Republic as it was intended by the Founders. I mean what is it that you all are always clambering about this American democracy that you don't like, or that differs from its original intent?
                              It most certainly not "always defind [sic] as a democracy" as the FF's repeatedly made clear or as the Army training manual from a hundred years ago makes clear.

                              As to what is a republic. It is where the power is ultimately vested in the people who act through their elected officials.

                              What is important here is that we have a Constitution as the ultimate law of the land. The thing so many on the left want to do away with as a relic of a by-gone era compiled by a bunch of dead white males, some of whom were slaveowners.

                              It puts checks onto what the government can do, and the original Bill of Rights portion enumerates the God-given rights that government is not supposed to tread on.

                              It is the principle stop gap against mob rule as it defends the rights of both individuals and the minority/minorities against the majority.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                Folks regularly call for an end to democracy here largely because we aren't one and were never intended to be one. We are a constitutional republic or a democratic republic. A democracy is mob rule -- where two wolves and a sheep vote on what's for dinner. A democracy is where you can trample all over the rights of minorities because majority rules.
                                Wellany people at CPAC don't agree with you because they are calling for an end to it.

                                And you didn't offer any list of laws from the old testament that you think belong now.

                                And what do you think about execution on the USA? Do you think these should be public and what about some thinking that they should be painful?

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