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A policy I will wholeheartedly, unequivocally, support President Biden on.

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  • A policy I will wholeheartedly, unequivocally, support President Biden on.

    From surprise retaraunt fees, cable/internet fees, airline ticket fees, hotel fees, etc. Businesses are frequently advertising a low price, and then mark up the actual price paid through use of fees. This often happens only after the deal has closed, or when you are so far into a process that you don't want to back out. I will support rulemaking from either party designed to put an end to this process. Force businesses to actually display the actual price, not some fake price you will never pay.

    The comment period on this ended last month. I'm hoping to see some sort of final version soon (though I don't know what soon is)

    Source: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/11/09/2023-24234/trade-regulation-rule-on-unfair-or-deceptive-fees

    AGENCY:

    Federal Trade Commission.ACTION:


    Notice of proposed rulemaking; request for public comment.
    SUMMARY:


    The Federal Trade Commission commences a rulemaking to promulgate a trade regulation rule entitled “Rule on Unfair or Deceptive Fees,” which would prohibit unfair or deceptive practices relating to fees for goods or services, specifically, misrepresenting the total costs of goods and services by omitting mandatory fees from advertised prices and misrepresenting the nature and purpose of fees. The Commission finds these unfair or deceptive practices relating to fees to be prevalent based on prior enforcement, the comments it received in response to an advance notice of proposed rulemaking, and other information discussed in this proposal. The Commission now solicits written comment, data, and arguments concerning the utility and scope of the trade regulation rule proposed in this notice of proposed rulemaking to prevent the identified unfair or deceptive practices.

    © Copyright Original Source


  • #2
    Agree, and tipping is getting out of hand too. When you order food online, you are charged a higher price than in the restaurant, then other fees, then you have to pay the Door Dash fee and expected to tip your driver on top of that.

    And I have seen even in fast food restaurants where you order on a kiosk, it asks you for a tip. A tip for the kiosk?


    I have no problem tipping for actual good service by a human, but I am not tipping a machine.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      Agree, and tipping is getting out of hand too. When you order food online, you are charged a higher price than in the restaurant, then other fees, then you have to pay the Door Dash fee and expected to tip your driver on top of that.

      And I have seen even in fast food restaurants where you order on a kiosk, it asks you for a tip. A tip for the kiosk?


      I have no problem tipping for actual good service by a human, but I am not tipping a machine.
      The city I live in charges you a "convenience fee" if you pay for anything online -- garbage pickup, property tax, traffic tickets...

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        I read years ago about car dealerships including line items with obscure acronyms on the bill of sale that are literally nothing more than additional profit for the dealership. I agree that this sort of thing should be illegal.

        Also, any company that advertises a low product price but charges exorbitant shipping and handing fees. I see this sort of thing all the time from third party sellers on Amazon, where something will be listed with a "too good to be true" price, and then you find out that it will cost an additional $30 for them to send it to you.
        Last edited by Mountain Man; 02-06-2024, 10:15 AM.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #5
          The counterargument I've seen is that businesses will accordingly mark up prices, but that would seem to be a wash anyway. At least this way consumers will know what they're paying for ahead of time.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

          Comment


          • #6
            Can we also require brick and mortar shops to include taxes on their shelf tags?
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              The counterargument I've seen is that businesses will accordingly mark up prices, but that would seem to be a wash anyway. At least this way consumers will know what they're paying for ahead of time.
              To me, that's not a counter argument. :) It's not the high price that is the problem, it's the bait-and-switch that's the problem. Shoppers can't compare when the full price isn't actually known.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                The city I live in charges you a "convenience fee" if you pay for anything online -- garbage pickup, property tax, traffic tickets...
                A "convenient" way to scam more money out of you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  I read years ago about car dealerships including line items with obscure acronyms on the bill of sale that are literally nothing more than additional profit for the dealership. I agree that this sort of thing should be illegal.

                  Also, any company that advertises a low product price but charges exorbitant shipping and handing fees. I see this sort of thing all the time from third party sellers on Amazon, where something will be listed with a "too good to be true" price, and then you find out that it will cost an additional $30 for them to send it to you.
                  That's easy to resolve. Just tell them you are not going to pay for any of that. If they want to sell you the car, they will take it off. Car buying is one of the remaining purchases where you can haggle. But most people just pay it and go on.

                  When I bought my SUV, I told them I did not want any "Dealer Addons" which ran about $3,000. They had to order the car for me, so all they had to do is not put the addons on (stuff like mudflaps, cargo net, etc). But when it came in, they put all that on it and tried to charge me for it. I told them no, take it all off. They said it would cost more to take it off than leave it on, and we settled on $200 for the items.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    That's easy to resolve. Just tell them you are not going to pay for any of that. If they want to sell you the car, they will take it off. Car buying is one of the remaining purchases where you can haggle. But most people just pay it and go on.

                    When I bought my SUV, I told them I did not want any "Dealer Addons" which ran about $3,000. They had to order the car for me, so all they had to do is not put the addons on (stuff like mudflaps, cargo net, etc). But when it came in, they put all that on it and tried to charge me for it. I told them no, take it all off. They said it would cost more to take it off than leave it on, and we settled on $200 for the items.
                    Yes, a savvy buyer can challenge those fees and fight to have them removed, but for people unaware, they won't have any idea they're just putting more money into the pocket of the dealer, which is why I am in favor of forcing full disclosure.

                    It's also a little known fact that everything is negotiable, and it never hurts to ask. The worst that can happen is the salesman tells you no. I recently bought a new mountain bike and got a $600 discount just because I asked for a better deal.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                      That's easy to resolve. Just tell them you are not going to pay for any of that. If they want to sell you the car, they will take it off. Car buying is one of the remaining purchases where you can haggle. But most people just pay it and go on.

                      When I bought my SUV, I told them I did not want any "Dealer Addons" which ran about $3,000. They had to order the car for me, so all they had to do is not put the addons on (stuff like mudflaps, cargo net, etc). But when it came in, they put all that on it and tried to charge me for it. I told them no, take it all off. They said it would cost more to take it off than leave it on, and we settled on $200 for the items.
                      Had a friend who bought a new high end Mercedes back in the late 80s. After he paid for it they attached the dealers logo to his trunk (they had to punch tiny holes in it to attach it). My buddy went ballistic demanding to know who gave permission to do that. When they said it was SOP he pointed out that they did it after he owned the car and was no longer theirs to do it to. They basically refunded nearly $2000 for the "damages." Did I mention that he was a lawyer?

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Can we also require brick and mortar shops to include taxes on their shelf tags?
                        That could cause some logistical issues when they're subject to change so often when you count state plus local taxes. It would be a nightmare to make Wal-Mart redo the entire store's worth of prices in a week because the county decided to cut taxes.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          That could cause some logistical issues when they're subject to change so often when you count state plus local taxes. It would be a nightmare to make Wal-Mart redo the entire store's worth of prices in a week because the county decided to cut taxes.
                          Do tax changes really happen that often though?

                          In my country prices on the tag are inclusive of tax, so you pay the price on the tag. I've heard a few people comment that visiting America it really annoyed them that taxes weren't included because they couldn't then have exact change ready to pay with (that was more a problem when you were a cash-heavy society, with cards it's obviously easier).
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

                            That could cause some logistical issues when they're subject to change so often when you count state plus local taxes. It would be a nightmare to make Wal-Mart redo the entire store's worth of prices in a week because the county decided to cut taxes.
                            A government agency deciding to cut taxes. That's hilarious.

                            But I do see your point; however, I wonder, do taxes change at such a high frequency that it would create an undue burden on the retailer? I consider the fact that it seems like prices are constantly changing anyway, with sales, discounts, promotions, etc.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              Do tax changes really happen that often though?

                              In my country prices on the tag are inclusive of tax, so you pay the price on the tag. I've heard a few people comment that visiting America it really annoyed them that taxes weren't included because they couldn't then have exact change ready to pay with (that was more a problem when you were a cash-heavy society, with cards it's obviously easier).
                              Possibly. I don't think it's as dramatic as some make out, but it is definitely more complex. We don't have a national salestax, but we DO have sales-taxes at the state, and possibly county, and municipality level. That is 3 separate taxes, controlled by 3 separate levels of the government, each with their own independent decision making body and financial needs.

                              Having said that, turnover at the store-level means most often that price tags are changed frequently already. I don't buy that general excuse. Plus, these days, everything is software based, so it's even less likely to be an issue.

                              I suspect the primary reason we don't automatically include tax in our prices has to do with an intersection of geographic price stability, profit, price psychology, and self-competitiveness.

                              We know that, psychologically, people are much more willing to buy a $9.99 item as opposed to a $10.00 item even though the prices are for all practical purposes, identical. So, companies are at an incentive to price at the $x.99 and $x.95 level. This is more complicated with sales-tax, as you have to price your item so that Item + tax = $x.99. Again, software based, so, easily do-able. (It does make advertising the prices a bit more iffy though.)

                              However, now when you get to the fact that different areas (even near-by areas) can have different taxes, you run into an issue where a Store has an Item at one price, and that same store, 20 minutes down the road, has it at a different price. Stores don't like doing that. So, then the flip side is you try to make ALL the products across the store meet the same end-price point. Which means you are actually selling the item at different prices based on locality. That can cause regulator issues, publicity issues, and can make the profit on an item less reliable. Suddenly, it's less profitable to sell the $9.99 teddy bear in Store A than the $9.99 teddy bear at Store B becuase in actuality, the price of the bear is $7.99 in store A and $8.99 in store B before taxes...

                              I think that issue is why we don't do it over here in the states.

                              It really is important to remember how big and wide the US is, and how it has so many smaller jurisdictions within it. This does create many more complexities that a smaller sized country, like NZ just doesn't have.

                              Comment

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