Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Border deal...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Border deal...

    Text here: Good or bad? I just started to read it...

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sen...er-legislation
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Being that Biden used it as a means of coercion, and the fact that democrats are open border advocates, I'm just going to assume it's bad and was used as a ruse to guise other things in it that are hidden, unless I see evidence to the contrary.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by seanD View Post
      Being that Biden used it as a means of coercion, and the fact that democrats are open border advocates, I'm just going to assume it's bad and was used as a ruse to guise other things in it that are hidden, unless I see evidence to the contrary.
      can'tdisagree.gif

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seanD View Post
        Being that Biden used it as a means of coercion, and the fact that democrats are open border advocates, I'm just going to assume it's bad and was used as a ruse to guise other things in it that are hidden, unless I see evidence to the contrary.
        Same here. Biden pushed this, McConnell and Schumer worked on the details, and it sends American tax dollars (or equivalent) to Ukraine and Israel.

        Bad deal. Time for the House to reject it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Civics seems like the place where people would not simply decide the merits of a bill on the basis of whether their preferred politicians were involved in the process, to be slightly critical.

          -Sam
          "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

          Comment


          • #6
            My consideration of the bill in question, to avoid falling into the mentality I'm criticizing, is that the statutory protections for asylum-seeking migrants are insufficient in balancing the draconian and clearly unconstitutional aspects of the proposed policy. Eliminating the ability to apply for asylum between PoE during "surges" is almost certainly unconstitutional and, without sufficiently increasing the application capacity at PoE would create a clearly untenable burden on asylum seekers, resulting in more dangerous tent cities around border entry areas. Supplemental aid to Israeli military needs to be premised on cessation of hostilities directed at civilians, as well as concrete and actionable measures to reduce civilian causalities when targeting Hamas. By all rights, it should be conditional on the removal of Israeli officials using genocidal rhetoric against Gazans and Palestinians.

            -Sam
            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sam View Post
              Civics seems like the place where people would not simply decide the merits of a bill on the basis of whether their preferred politicians were involved in the process, to be slightly critical.
              It's sort of like a Mormon asking you to read the Book of Mormon before making a decision on the merits of Mormonism. I know enough about it through osmosis, and about Joseph Smith, to not waste my time reading their texts.

              ETA: If you are going to criticize a poster, it would be tactful to quote them. Otherwise, it may go unnoticed and without response (unless that is what you are aiming for).
              Last edited by Ronson; 02-04-2024, 09:07 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                A summary I've read online:

                "$20.23 billion for border security, the bill included $60.06 billion to support Ukraine in its war with Russia, $14.1 billion in security assistance for Israel, $2.44 billion to U.S. Central Command and the conflict in the Red Sea, and $4.83 billion to support U.S. partners in the Indo-Pacific facing aggression from China"


                Bad deal.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                  It's sort of like a Mormon asking you to read the Book of Mormon before making a decision on the merits of Mormonism. I know enough about it through osmosis, and about Joseph Smith, to not waste my time reading their texts.

                  ETA: If you are going to criticize a poster, it would be tactful to quote them. Otherwise, it may go unnoticed and without response (unless that is what you are aiming for).
                  Exactly. It's laughable anyone would think I would trust a political party that for years claimed "open borders" was a rightwing conspiracy theory.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                    A summary I've read online:

                    "$20.23 billion for border security, the bill included $60.06 billion to support Ukraine in its war with Russia, $14.1 billion in security assistance for Israel, $2.44 billion to U.S. Central Command and the conflict in the Red Sea, and $4.83 billion to support U.S. partners in the Indo-Pacific facing aggression from China"


                    Bad deal.
                    In a way I'm kind of glad they capitulated and gave the Biden admin the money they wanted for Ukraine. That way, when that thing implodes, and Ukraine surrenders or Russia marches on Kiev (assuming NATO doesn't intervene and it turns into a real world war), the Biden admin and the Derms won't be able to use the Reps as a scapegoat for their debacle.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seanD View Post

                      In a way I'm kind of glad they capitulated and gave the Biden admin the money they wanted for Ukraine. That way, when that thing implodes, and Ukraine surrenders or Russia marches on Kiev (assuming NATO doesn't intervene and it turns into a real world war), the Biden admin and the Derms won't be able to use the Reps as a scapegoat for their debacle.
                      That's a high price to pay just to shame the Democrats (although not being a Republican myself, I am impervious to Dem scapegoating).

                      I'd rather just starve all of these military expenditures, or deal with them individually. I'd like to hear some good arguments to be involved in any of these endless wars and proxy wars.

                      Oh, here's a surprise (not): John Bolton has come out in defense of Nikki Haley. Who would have guessed that?!?! [/sarcasm]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                        It's sort of like a Mormon asking you to read the Book of Mormon before making a decision on the merits of Mormonism. I know enough about it through osmosis, and about Joseph Smith, to not waste my time reading their texts.

                        ETA: If you are going to criticize a poster, it would be tactful to quote them. Otherwise, it may go unnoticed and without response (unless that is what you are aiming for).
                        Since the sentiment was shared by numerous (indeed, the vast majority) of folks who had posted, quoting one would have been unnecessarily targeting and multi-quoting has never proven workable.

                        I think a LDS adherent asking me to understand the details of LDS theology before criticizing or summarily dismissing it is entirely reasonable! Certainly, if I were in a forum devoted to comparative theology, I'd feel like having some concrete knowledge of the thing I'm talking about would be an expectation.

                        -Sam
                        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sam View Post
                          My consideration of the bill in question, to avoid falling into the mentality I'm criticizing, is that the statutory protections for asylum-seeking migrants are insufficient in balancing the draconian and clearly unconstitutional aspects of the proposed policy. Eliminating the ability to apply for asylum between PoE during "surges" is almost certainly unconstitutional and, without sufficiently increasing the application capacity at PoE would create a clearly untenable burden on asylum seekers, resulting in more dangerous tent cities around border entry areas.
                          Indeed. The bill seems pretty draconian.

                          Biden has been repeatedly criticized throughout his term by liberals for being too draconian on the border. This would seem to unnecessarily add to that.

                          Since he gets absolutely zero credit from the right for his draconian border policies, and they just repeat the lie that he's for open borders ad nauseum, what exactly does he expect to gain by pandering to them???

                          Supplemental aid to Israeli military needs to be premised on cessation of hostilities directed at civilians, as well as concrete and actionable measures to reduce civilian causalities when targeting Hamas. By all rights, it should be conditional on the removal of Israeli officials using genocidal rhetoric against Gazans and Palestinians.
                          Indeed. With the recent ICJ finding that Israel is plausibly in the midst of committing a genocide, the US is obligated by its own treaties and commitments to take steps. Continuing to supply military aid no-questions-asked to a nation that the court has said looks to be committing a genocide, is a really basic no-go.
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sam View Post

                            Since the sentiment was shared by numerous (indeed, the vast majority) of folks who had posted, quoting one would have been unnecessarily targeting and multi-quoting has never proven workable.
                            Two of four posts is hardly a "vast majority," but no matter.

                            I think a LDS adherent asking me to understand the details of LDS theology before criticizing or summarily dismissing it is entirely reasonable! Certainly, if I were in a forum devoted to comparative theology, I'd feel like having some concrete knowledge of the thing I'm talking about would be an expectation.
                            Shall we test that? I seem to recall that you have dismissed Donald Trump and the MAGA movement as being a better alternative for this country than the Biden presidency. Therefore, you need to recant your dismissal until you've read The Art of the Deal.
                            Last edited by Ronson; 02-04-2024, 11:02 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                              Two of four posts is hardly a "vast majority," but no matter.



                              Shall we test that? I seem to recall that you have dismissed Donald Trump and the MAGA movement as being a better alternative for this country than the Biden presidency. Therefore, you need to recant your dismissal until you've read The Art of the Deal.
                              3 out of 4, at the time. 75%.

                              Two problems with the second paragraph: (1) You're not asking me to critique a political movement on the basis of factual details regarding that movement and (2) Donald Trump didn't write The Art of the Deal.

                              -Sam
                              "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by Cow Poke, Today, 11:39 AM
                              10 responses
                              28 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Started by Juvenal, Today, 10:50 AM
                              7 responses
                              41 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Juvenal
                              by Juvenal
                               
                              Started by eider, Today, 03:45 AM
                              40 responses
                              157 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                              Started by Cow Poke, Yesterday, 08:26 AM
                              18 responses
                              144 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post whag
                              by whag
                               
                              Started by Cow Poke, Yesterday, 07:51 AM
                              3 responses
                              29 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Cow Poke  
                              Working...
                              X