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"avowed" Christian Nationalist

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    Unless you're one of those revisionist historians who, despite all evidence to the contrary, insist the Founding Fathers were nominal Christians, and the US wasn't founded on Christian principles.
    Back then even someone who was a "nominal Christian" was more devout than most Christians today.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Sam View Post

      As I wrote: "my focus on reminding people of a Christian standard is limited to adherents and, specifically, adherents who wield power over others." I've admonished oxmixmudd more than I have Mountain Man or seer but regular members don't often meet my criteria for intervention. The bias is toward those who carry the staff of Moses — those who strike the rock when they've been directed to speak to it. Any staff member who doesn't want that level of responsibility, I reason, is free to relieve themselves of the associated privileges.
      really? Can you show me a few examples of you admonishing Ox in the way you have done me, or MM or Seer?

      The rest is simply an argument for Christian nationalism: "Punishing someone for breaking a law based on Christian morality isn't forcing them to become Christian. It doesn't make them worship Jesus." is a statement approving both laws based on religiosity and punishments for those who don't adhere to that religiosity, even if such laws and punishments move people further away from voluntary adoption of Christian principles and worship.

      It is beyond my interest to try and dissuade Christian nationalists from their pursuits of power. I simply ask that they not feign incredulity and offense when people rightly describe them as Christian nationalists.

      -Sam
      For someone who has complained about people chopping out parts of your posts and only responding to the bits they want to, you sure are great at doing that yourself. You basically ignored every one of my points and handwaved it away as "The rest is simply an argument for Christian nationalism"

      Congrats, you are as big of a hypocrite as you claim the rest of us are. Your philosophy seems to be "Do as I say, not as I do"

      And yes, you do try to impose your morality on others. I am the brunt of such imposition.


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      • #48
        Originally posted by Sam View Post

        It is beyond my interest to try and dissuade Christian nationalists from their pursuits of power. I simply ask that they not feign incredulity and offense when people rightly describe them as Christian nationalists.

        -Sam
        Sam if we went back to the laws and principles most states and courts held 70 years ago would you consider that Christian nationalism?
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          really? Can you show me a few examples of you admonishing Ox in the way you have done me, or MM or Seer?



          For someone who has complained about people chopping out parts of your posts and only responding to the bits they want to, you sure are great at doing that yourself. You basically ignored every one of my points and handwaved it away as "The rest is simply an argument for Christian nationalism"

          Congrats, you are as big of a hypocrite as you claim the rest of us are. Your philosophy seems to be "Do as I say, not as I do"

          And yes, you do try to impose your morality on others. I am the brunt of such imposition.
          No, I don't keep records. I recall chiding oxmixmudd once over his response to someone (Cow Poke, I think) in the last few months and I do not recall bothering to point out something as explicitly anti-Christian Mountain Man or seer's posts in that time period. You're an owner and moderator; you don't fall into the "regular member" category.

          I responded to your post in its entirety and didn't remove anything when quoting it. I even quoted you again and explained why that sentiment met the definition of Christian nationalism. I did not ignore something substantive in your post that would answer or rebut a claim I made when quoting you.

          When I impose a moral standard on you, it's in your role as a Christian — and specifically in your role as a Christian with authority over others. That's the standard that you chose to adopt, which makes it distinct from someone imposing a legal prohibition on non-adherents. And there are no associated punishments for you violating that standard or simply ignoring me — unlike the civil and criminal penalties Christian nationalists would attach to vice laws.

          If you've got an ax to grind, grind away — but don't get so caught up in it that you don't think straight.

          -Sam
          "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Sam View Post
            ... I do not recall bothering to point out something as explicitly anti-Christian Mountain Man or seer's posts in that time period ...
            In the last couple of months, you falsely accused me of once claiming you weren't a Christian. Does that count?

            (You claimed it happened on the old tWeb site that is no longer accessible, so you conveniently had no way to prove your accusation; you also claimed to vividly remember my exact words but just could not seem to remember what you might have said that would have provoked such a response.)
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

              Naturally, liberals are not going to vilify those Christians who have compromised their values and aligned themselves with the world.
              So, you're contradicting yourself then. You said all one had to do was to identify as christian to be labeled by liberals as Christian nationalist.
              Must just be your own persecution complex shining through MM since you are a Christian nationalist yourself.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                In the last couple of months, you falsely accused me of once claiming you weren't a Christian. Does that count?

                (You claimed it happened on the old tWeb site that is no longer accessible, so you conveniently had no way to prove your accusation; you also claimed to vividly remember my exact words but just could not seem to remember what you might have said that would have provoked such a response.)
                No, I remember that. It wasn't a false charge and I reminded you of that because you were expressing outrage that oxmixmudd would charge you with not being a real Christian (he did not say as much but that was your inference). That's not accusing you of unChristian behavior or even commenting on the moral rightness of making such a charge: only reminding you that you had engaged in the same behavior you were accusing oxmixmudd of doing.

                I also, when asked, recalled two of the topics of discussion that brought about the charge, which I think is fully sufficient despite your ostensible standard of photographic recall.

                -Sam
                "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                  Back then even someone who was a "nominal Christian" was more devout than most Christians today.
                  Well, im sure thats been true in the case of every religion throughout history all of which eventually die out. Belief in the crazy stuff slowly erodes belief away in the whole thing.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by seer View Post

                    True, I was thinking more of the sexual prohibitions. Though I do think that Blue laws were a moral good. Sunday when I grew up was quiet and for church and family. No stores or bars were open.
                    And how precisely is that a "moral good"?

                    How is the government forcing businesses to remain closed and deny them of an entire day of potential sales a "moral good"? And if it is a "moral good" then clearly you were fine with the government shutting down businesses during COVID lockdowns, and that wad a "moral good", right?
                    Last edited by Gondwanaland; 12-07-2023, 02:25 PM.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Sam View Post

                      No, I remember that. It wasn't a false charge and I reminded you of that because you were expressing outrage that oxmixmudd would charge you with not being a real Christian (he did not say as much but that was your inference). That's not accusing you of unChristian behavior or even commenting on the moral rightness of making such a charge: only reminding you that you had engaged in the same behavior you were accusing oxmixmudd of doing.

                      I also, when asked, recalled two of the topics of discussion that brought about the charge, which I think is fully sufficient despite your ostensible standard of photographic recall.

                      -Sam
                      Oh, please. You quoted from memory what you claimed were my exact words, but then you conveniently had no recall whatsoever about what you might have said to provoke my alleged response.

                      Let's just say that doesn't pass the smell test.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                        They are birds of a feather. If I didn't know better, I would think one of a sock puppet of the other.
                        Sam is much more meticulous than Ox. But, yeah, it's sad to see others who identify as Christian so blatantly anti-Christian that they use leftist anti-Christian rags to express that view.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                          And how precisely is that a "moral good"?

                          How is the government forcing businesses to remain closed and deny them of an entire day of potential sales a "moral good"? And if it is a "moral good" then clearly you were fine with the government shutting down businesses during COVID lockdowns, and that wad a "moral good", right?
                          That is a stupid comparison, what the government did during COVID actually destroyed businesses. I know of a number in my home town. Having a Sunday off and spending it with with your family is a moral good in my mind. And in all the years I lived through those quiet Sundays I never heard of a business failing because of that.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by seanD View Post

                            Sam is much more meticulous than Ox. But, yeah, it's sad to see others who identify as Christian so blatantly anti-Christian that they use leftist anti-Christian rags to express that view.
                            Reminded, coincidentally enough, of this scene from "Dead Man" (1995)

                            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by seer View Post

                              That is a stupid comparison, what the government did during COVID actually destroyed businesses. I know of a number in my home town. Having a Sunday off and spending it with with your family is a moral good in my mind. And in all the years I lived through those quiet Sundays I never heard of a business failing because of that.
                              Both are the government closing down a business for "the moral good". Sounds like you just don't like some "moral goods" with your big government but are fine with your big government nanny state enforcing others on businesses.

                              Comment


                              • #60

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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