Israeli Officials Calling for "Total War" In Gaza

[Starlight]

But hey, when Palestinians say it, its a "call for genocide".

I do think that in-context it's meant as a call for genocide by Netanyahu's party. However, in general, "from the river to the sea" is a geographical description, and I've seen both Jews and Palestinians to use it in such a way and not mean anything genocidal by it.

[Starlight]

There's a fairly good summary video here (22mins) of why what Israel's doing qualifies as genocide:

[rogue06]

OK — you both got your jabs in. Let's please try to keep this thread to substantive posting only, thank you.

-Sam

So you portrayed a long retired (since 2004) general as "Israeli officials" saying something similar to what has been the designated goal of Israel's enemies for decades.

Color me unimpressed.

[Sam]

So you portrayed a long retired (since 2004) general as "Israeli officials" saying something similar to what has been the designated goal of Israel's enemies for decades.

Color me unimpressed.

I'm not sure why you chose that post to respond to but if you go back to the OP, you'll read the part about the Israeli finance minister "agree[ing] with every word" of the military official's article, as well as references to other Israeli officials who have made similar claims against Gazan civilians, like Israel's current president:

Source: Is What’s Happening in Gaza a Genocide? Experts Weigh In. Solcyre Burga. TIME.com. 2023.11.13

He says Israeli leaders expressed “explicit, clear, and direct statements of intent,” pointing to Israeli President Isaac Herzog’s statement during an Oct. 13 press conference. In his statement, Herzog said, “It’s an entire nation that is out there that’s responsible. It’s not true, this rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true,” Herzog said. “They could have risen up, they could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d'etat.” (Herzog later said that he is not holding the civilians of Gaza responsible for keeping Hamas in political power, when asked to clarify by a journalist at the same press conference.) Segal says that this language conflates all Palestinians as “an enemy population,” which could help prove intent.

© Copyright Original Source

or other current and former Israeli government officials invoking Dresden, like former Israeli PM Naftali Bennett:

Source: ‘What Is Wrong With You? We’re Fighting Nazis!’ Fmr. Israeli PM Bennett Explodes on Anchor Asking About Civilian Casualties in Gaza Isaac Schorr. MediaITE.com. 2023.10.12

Bennett then brought up the United Kingdom’s bombing of Dresden during World War II as a precedent for the acceptance of some civilian casualties in war.

“And in hindsight, many people have readdressed that kind of carpet bombing,” countered Melbourne.

“Oh I see, now you’re Mr. Clean,” replied Bennett. “Shame on you!”

“Are you going to let me ask you a question, or are you going to continue shouting at me?” asked Melbourne. “We’ve already distinguished between Hamas and the Palestinians. I’m asking you very directly, very directly: What is going to be done to make sure that those innocent people don’t get killed as innocent Jewish people were killed on Saturday?”

“Well, we’re going to target Hamas and we’re telling Hamas that if you use anyone as your human shield, and you’re going to shoot at us using human shields, that it’s their responsibility,” answered Bennett. “Listen, mister. If someone is shooting at your children and hiding behind a human shield, will you shoot back or not? I’m asking you a question.”

© Copyright Original Source

The erasure of a line between combatants and non-combatants in Gaza has been ongoing within Israel's government and military, which is how Gaza now finds itself at a place where the homes of over 1.7 million of the region's 2.2 million residents are now unhabitable and the child death toll from Israeli bombing stands above 5,000.

-Sam

[rogue06]

I'm not sure why you chose that post to respond to but if you go back to the OP, you'll read the part about the Israeli finance minister "agree[ing] with every word" of the military official's article, as well as references to other Israeli officials who have made similar claims against Gazan civilians, like Israel's current president:

Source: Is What’s Happening in Gaza a Genocide? Experts Weigh In. Solcyre Burga. TIME.com. 2023.11.13

He says Israeli leaders expressed “explicit, clear, and direct statements of intent,” pointing to Israeli President Isaac Herzog’s statement during an Oct. 13 press conference. In his statement, Herzog said, “It’s an entire nation that is out there that’s responsible. It’s not true, this rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true,” Herzog said. “They could have risen up, they could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d'etat.” (Herzog later said that he is not holding the civilians of Gaza responsible for keeping Hamas in political power, when asked to clarify by a journalist at the same press conference.) Segal says that this language conflates all Palestinians as “an enemy population,” which could help prove intent.

© Copyright Original Source

or other current and former Israeli government officials invoking Dresden, like former Israeli PM Naftali Bennett:

Source: ‘What Is Wrong With You? We’re Fighting Nazis!’ Fmr. Israeli PM Bennett Explodes on Anchor Asking About Civilian Casualties in Gaza Isaac Schorr. MediaITE.com. 2023.10.12

Bennett then brought up the United Kingdom’s bombing of Dresden during World War II as a precedent for the acceptance of some civilian casualties in war.

“And in hindsight, many people have readdressed that kind of carpet bombing,” countered Melbourne.

“Oh I see, now you’re Mr. Clean,” replied Bennett. “Shame on you!”

“Are you going to let me ask you a question, or are you going to continue shouting at me?” asked Melbourne. “We’ve already distinguished between Hamas and the Palestinians. I’m asking you very directly, very directly: What is going to be done to make sure that those innocent people don’t get killed as innocent Jewish people were killed on Saturday?”

“Well, we’re going to target Hamas and we’re telling Hamas that if you use anyone as your human shield, and you’re going to shoot at us using human shields, that it’s their responsibility,” answered Bennett. “Listen, mister. If someone is shooting at your children and hiding behind a human shield, will you shoot back or not? I’m asking you a question.”

© Copyright Original Source

The erasure of a line between combatants and non-combatants in Gaza has been ongoing within Israel's government and military, which is how Gaza now finds itself at a place where the homes of over 1.7 million of the region's 2.2 million residents are now unhabitable and the child death toll from Israeli bombing stands above 5,000.

-Sam

So nothing about this being the stated policy of Israel's enemies since 1948. I guess that's okay.

[Sam]

So nothing about this being the stated policy of Israel's enemies since 1948. I guess that's okay.

First up: you were wrong about this being a fringe opinion from a long out-of-the-picture general.

Secondly, we're not giving military aid to Hamas or Iran or Hezbollah. And Israel isn't casting itself as their equivalent. It is reasonable to expect that Israel not promote genocidal rhetoric or openly plan for the mass expulsion of a people group so it can resettle their land.

And if your standard of ethics revolves around what your enemies say and do, at least have the sense to cover up the "Christian" tag when you're making the argument.

-Sam

[Sam]

Former Israeli minister of justice and interior minister Ayelet Shaked arguing on Israeli television for the expulsion of "all two million [Gazans] to leave" and for Israel to "take advantage of the destruction we will wreak upon them" after "turn[ing] Khan Younis into a soccer field".

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[Sam]

Deputy mayor of Jerusalem calls captured Gazans "subhuman" and suggests burying them alive with tanks.

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[rogue06]

acc5cfc0-bc70-4008-aecd-c5b053ec7529.jpg

[Sam]

acc5cfc0-bc70-4008-aecd-c5b053ec7529.jpg

I remind you of the thread rules: keep posts substantive. Memes, in general, violate that standard. Memes without substantive content aren't welcome. If you want to make the argument (charitably described) in the meme, make it in your own words with your own mental effort.

-Sam

[rogue06]

I remind you of the thread rules: keep posts substantive. Memes, in general, violate that standard. Memes without substantive content aren't welcome. If you want to make the argument (charitably described) in the meme, make it in your own words with your own mental effort.

-Sam

Thanks, but I think the point was made and the double standard sufficiently exposed.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Deputy mayor of Jerusalem calls captured Gazans "subhuman" and suggests burying them alive with tanks.

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I am loath to write it but such remarks would not be out of place in one of Streicher's articles in Der Stürmer - just replace the word German with the word Israeli.

The war the German people are fighting today is a holy war. It is a war against the devil. The German people must win this war if the devil is to die and humanity is to live.

[eider]

When we look at the Israeli military's actions since October 7, it is our responsibility to ask what the end goal is. And while there has been talk about returning Gazans to their homes (now unhabitable) and relying on some as-of-yet- unspecified international police force, we should also pay attention to what current and former Israeli officials say about the civilian population and ask if there is really a priority — or even consideration — for engaging in a limited war against Hamas, rather than a total war against all of Gaza.
-Sam

They've been intending to raze Gaza from the beginning, I reckon. They seem to want to bring a new kind of holocaust about.

I wonder if the world's opinion about Israel and the Jewish people will be badly damaged after this. ?? A few Israeli leaders causing so much damage to their own and to Palestinian civilians.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

They've been intending to raze Gaza from the beginning, I reckon. They seem to want to bring a new kind of holocaust about.

I wonder if the world's opinion about Israel and the Jewish people will be badly damaged after this. ?? A few Israeli leaders causing so much damage to their own and to Palestinian civilians.

I sincerely hope that the extremism of this present administration does not rebound on Jews across the world.

I would also suspect that these extremist RW Jews will want to ensure there are a few "tame" Palestinians around to provide a pool of cheap labour.

[Gondwanaland]

And now this US administration is circumventing congress to make an 'emergency' sale of weapons to the Zionists in Israel to kill more innocents.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/blinken-d...155908753.html

Blinken defends bypassing Congress to sell weapons to Israel and presses lawmakers to help Ukraine

Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Sunday defended the emergency sale to Israel of nearly 14,000 rounds of tank ammunition and also called for quick congressional approval of more than $100 billion in aid for Israel, Ukraine and other national security priorities.

Blinken said the needs of Israel's military operations in Gaza justify the rare decision to bypass Congress. “Israel is in combat right now with Hamas,” he said during television interviews. “And we want to make sure that Israel has what it needs to defend itself against Hamas."

The tank ammunition and related support constitute only a small portion of military sales to Israel, Blinken said, and that the rest remains subject to congressional review. "It’s very important that Congress‘ voice be heard in this,” he said.

The decision to proceed with the sale of more than $106 million for tank shells came as the Biden administration's larger aid package is caught up in a debate over U.S. immigration policy and border security.

Blinken noted that President Joe Biden has said he is willing to make significant compromises to get the aid package moving. ``It’s something the president is fully prepared to engage on," Blinken said.

Sen. Mitt Romney, R-Utah, said there is bipartisan agreement that something has to be done to address record numbers of migrants crossing into the United States from Mexico.

“We want to solve that, to secure the border. I just saw the president of the United States say that we’ve got to secure the border. He’s right. So, any effort that doesn’t do that will be rejected by Republicans,” Romney said.

The stakes are especially high for Ukraine, Blinken said, given that “ we are running out of funding ” for the Ukrainians.

"This is a time to really step up because if we don’t, we know what happens. (Russian President Vladimir) Putin will be able to move forward with impunity and we know he won't stop in Ukraine.”

Congress already has allocated $111 billion to assist Ukraine, and Biden's budget director, Shalanda Young, said in a letter this past week to House and Senate leaders that the U.S. will run out of funding to send weapons and assistance to Ukraine by the end of the year, which would “kneecap” Ukraine on the battlefield.

But Sen. JD Vance, R-Ohio, said the administration has yet to justify additional aid to Ukraine. “So what we’re saying to the president and really to the entire world is, you need to articulate what the ambition is. What is $61 billion going to accomplish that $100 billion hasn’t?” Vance said.

Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., said the money would make a difference because Russia is struggling to fund its war effort. “It can change the outcome of this war,” Murphy said. “Because at the very same time that we are making a renewed commitment to Ukraine, Russia’s ability to continue to fight this war is in jeopardy.”

Romney said he also supports the aid to Ukraine. “My own view is that it’s very much in America’s interest to see Ukraine successful and to provide the weapons that Ukraine needs to defend itself. Anything other than that would be a huge dereliction of our responsibility, I believe, to the world of democracy but also to our own national interest,” he said.

Blinken appeared on ABC's “This Week” and CNN's “State of the Union.” Romney and Murphy were on NBC's “Meet the Press.” Vance was on CNN.