Young americans:Osama bin Laden Right?

[Gondwanaland]

There is no justifiable reason for the 911 attack. So claiming he had "different reasons" does not excuse his actions. I am sure Hitler had his "reasons" too. Who cares?

no one here is 'excusing' actions, so spare me your strawman bs.

And as far as I remember we had no idea what his reasons were at the time of the attack or our response. We didn't care. All we knew is that a terrorist organization attacked the USA. I don't recall "Dubya" making up any false reasons for the attack. All we cared about was that we were attacked and responding. As it should be. Because there is no justification for 911.

Maybe if the terrorists cared about their own people at all, they wouldn't keep putting them in the line of fire by attacking the USA or Israel then hiding out among them. If you want to blame anyone for killing Palestinians and Arabs, blame the damn terrorists.

"maybe if America cared about their own people at all the US government wouldn't keep putting them in the line of fire by playing America's policeman, overthrowing governments, bombing innocent civilians we have no business bombing."

Seems like you have more in common with bin Laden than youd like to admit.

If you want to blame anyone for killing Palestinians and Arabs, blame the damn terrorists.

I do. I blame the damn terrorists of Israel and the damn terrorists who fund them

"The term terrorism is used by the great powers simply to refer to forms of violence of which they disapprove"
-Noam Chomsky

[Sparko]

no one here is 'excusing' actions, so spare me your strawman bs.


"maybe if America cared about their own people at all the US government wouldn't keep putting them in the line of fire by playing America's policeman, overthrowing governments, bombing innocent civilians we have no business bombing."

Seems like you have more in common with bin Laden than youd like to admit.


I do. I blame the damn terrorists of Israel and the damn terrorists who fund them

"The term terrorism is used by the great powers simply to refer to forms of violence of which they disapprove"
-Noam Chomsky

Ah so you are defending OBL after all.

[Gondwanaland]

Ah so you are defending OBL after all.

As I said:
No worries we both know you'll do it anyway when it suits you.

Didn't even wait two posts to prove me right. Do you eat the Lord's Supper with that falsehood-spewing little mouth of yours?

[Sparko]

As I said:
No worries we both know you'll do it anyway when it suits you.

Didn't even wait two posts to prove me right. Do you eat the Lord's Supper with that falsehood-spewing little mouth of yours?

I calls it as I see it.

You basically excused OBL's actions by blaming the USA as "America's [I think you meant "the World's?"] policemen"

Do you think that us interfering in other countries justifies 911? Do you think anything justifies 911?

[Gondwanaland]

I calls it as I see it.

You basically excused OBL's actions by blaming the USA as "America's [I think you meant "the World's?"] policemen"

Do you think that us interfering in other countries justifies 911? Do you think anything justifies 911?

Again, who said anything about "justifies" other than you?

Thanks though for not wasting a second to prove my prediction correct.

[Sparko]

Again, who said anything about "justifies" other than you?

Thanks though for not wasting a second to prove my prediction correct.

Rather than condemn OBL as a terrorist, you call those who read his letter and defend him on tiktok as "critical thinkers" and rather than condemn his acts as evil when I point out that he had no justification for his actions, you roll out "maybe if America cared about their own people at all the US government wouldn't keep putting them in the line of fire by playing America's policeman, overthrowing governments, bombing innocent civilians we have no business bombing."

Sound like you are excusing/justifying his actions to me.

[Gondwanaland]

Rather than condemn OBL as a terrorist,

Yeah I'm not playing this "jump through my hoops and condemn these things the way I demand you condemn them" game. Not for you, and not for any of your little Christian Goon squad, especially after we saw the racial slurs by one of your Goon squad.

you call those who read his letter and defend him on tiktok as "critical thinkers"

again, they didnt "defend him".

and rather than condemn his acts as evil when I point out that he had no justification for his actions, you roll out "maybe if America cared about their own people at all the US government wouldn't keep putting them in the line of fire by playing America's policeman, overthrowing governments, bombing innocent civilians we have no business bombing."

Sound like you are excusing/justifying his actions to me.

It sounds like you didn't grasp a word I said which only further proves the very point I made, you braying ass.

[Sparko]

Yeah I'm not playing this "jump through my hoops and condemn these things the way I demand you condemn them" game. Not for you, and not for any of your little Christian Goon squad, especially after we saw the racial slurs by one of your Goon squad.

again, they didnt "defend him".



It sounds like you didn't grasp a word I said which only further proves the very point I made, you braying ass.

OK what was the conclusion of their "Critical Thinking?"

and what did you mean by ""maybe if America cared about their own people at all the US government wouldn't keep putting them in the line of fire by playing America's policeman, overthrowing governments, bombing innocent civilians we have no business bombing."?

Maybe if we didn't to that then...what? Would terrorists just suddenly stop trying to attack us?

You seem to think all of the blame of fighting in the middle east seems to be the fault of the US and Israel. Yet muslims have been killing each other for centuries without any outside provocation. Sunni against Shia, Iraq committing genocide against the kurds, civil wars all over the place. Centuries of fighting in Afghanistan among various tribes, Iran against just about everyone in the area, Iraq against Kuwait, and on and on. If you compare the deaths of muslims caused by the US and Israel against the deaths of muslim by muslim, it would be less than 1%. You could give Israel to the Palestinians, wipe out every Jew, and you would not change anything in the middle east. They would still fight and kill one another. Yet I don't see you complaining about those conflicts and wars. You don't seem to have a problem with the fighting in Syria or Yemen. Just with Israel and the USA.

[Ronson]

If I may interject (I'm bored) ...

"Critical thinking", IMO, is simply analyzing something on its own merits without the influence of others. If I read a letter from Hitler that said "America sticks its nose into all sorts of affairs that is none if its business", I would agree with that. Would that mean I support Hitler? No. If I read a letter from Donald Trump or Noam Chomsky or Margaret Thatcher or Silence Dogood that said the same thing, I would agree with that, too. It is less about the source than it is about the subject.

So, a TikToker might read OBL's letter and say "I agree with this letter" (or a portion of it) - especially someone from a younger generation that is unfamiliar with OBL - there is nothing particularly awful about that. They don't know what he ultimately did, or masterminded. If they know more about OBL they might say "I don't agree with this letter", although what they mean is they don't agree with OBL's wider philosophy.

It is difficult to find anything in agreement from OBL because he was an evil person, so we associate everything about him as evil. If he said "it gets hot in the desert" we respond "but it's not always hot."

I think it's important to understand what motivates our enemies, both the evil ones and the not-so-evil ones.

My two cents

[rogue06]

[Gondwanaland]

If I may interject (I'm bored) ...

"Critical thinking", IMO, is simply analyzing something on its own merits without the influence of others. If I read a letter from Hitler that said "America sticks its nose into all sorts of affairs that is none if its business", I would agree with that. Would that mean I support Hitler? No. If I read a letter from Donald Trump or Noam Chomsky or Margaret Thatcher or Silence Dogood that said the same thing, I would agree with that, too. It is less about the source than it is about the subject.

So, a TikToker might read OBL's letter and say "I agree with this letter" (or a portion of it) - especially someone from a younger generation that is unfamiliar with OBL - there is nothing particularly awful about that. They don't know what he ultimately did, or masterminded. If they know more about OBL they might say "I don't agree with this letter", although what they mean is they don't agree with OBL's wider philosophy.

It is difficult to find anything in agreement from OBL because he was an evil person, so we associate everything about him as evil. If he said "it gets hot in the desert" we respond "but it's not always hot."

I think it's important to understand what motivates our enemies, both the evil ones and the not-so-evil ones.

My two cents

Precisely. Sparko seems to think that any sort of evaluation or critical thinking =a agreement/defense of someone.

I also guarantee he hasn't gone on tiktok and watched any video examining the bin Laden letter, he just blindly accepted the biased claims of the OP article which similarly not only didn't watch them but didn't manage to cite a single video. I'm highly suspecting in fact that they just jumped onto an anti-tiktok narrative just to attack the platform.

[Sparko]

If I may interject (I'm bored) ...

"Critical thinking", IMO, is simply analyzing something on its own merits without the influence of others. If I read a letter from Hitler that said "America sticks its nose into all sorts of affairs that is none if its business", I would agree with that. Would that mean I support Hitler? No. If I read a letter from Donald Trump or Noam Chomsky or Margaret Thatcher or Silence Dogood that said the same thing, I would agree with that, too. It is less about the source than it is about the subject.

So, a TikToker might read OBL's letter and say "I agree with this letter" (or a portion of it) - especially someone from a younger generation that is unfamiliar with OBL - there is nothing particularly awful about that. They don't know what he ultimately did, or masterminded. If they know more about OBL they might say "I don't agree with this letter", although what they mean is they don't agree with OBL's wider philosophy.

It is difficult to find anything in agreement from OBL because he was an evil person, so we associate everything about him as evil. If he said "it gets hot in the desert" we respond "but it's not always hot."

I think it's important to understand what motivates our enemies, both the evil ones and the not-so-evil ones.

My two cents

That is fine, understanding your enemy. And understanding that everyone has their "reasons" and rationalizations for what they do. OBL though the USA was evil because we supported Israel, and we are sinners and userers, etc.

But from what I can tell it goes beyond that with the tiktokers, they are SYMPATHIZING with Osama Bin Laden. Taking his side. And that is a LACK of critical thinking, in my opinion.

Source: https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/16/tech/tiktok-osama-bin-laden-letter-to-america/index.html

Some young Americans on TikTok say they sympathize with Osama bin Laden

Dozens of young Americans have posted videos on TikTok this week expressing sympathy with Osama bin Laden, the notorious terrorist who orchestrated the September 11 attacks, for a two-decade-old letter he wrote critiquing the United States, including its government and support of Israel.

© Copyright Original Source

And

Source: https://www.newsweek.com/bin-laden-letter-us-stuns-young-americans-he-was-right-1844234

"It's actually so mind-blowing to me that terrorism has been sold as this idea to the American people…that this group of people, this random group of people, just suddenly wakes up one day and just hates you…it doesn't make sense," another TikTok user said.

A few TikTok reactions to the letter show users recreating their joy at hearing of Bin Laden's death in 2011, then contrasting it with their shock at reading the letter in 2023, adding the phrase "he was right."

© Copyright Original Source

And from what I see of Gond's post, he agrees with them. He think American is to blame for OBL attacking us. He also believes that Israel is to blame for Hamas attacking them. He is taking the side of the terrorists. But when called out on it, he denies it.

[Gondwanaland]

That is fine, understanding your enemy. And understanding that everyone has their "reasons" and rationalizations for what they do. OBL though the USA was evil because we supported Israel, and we are sinners and userers, etc.

But from what I can tell it goes beyond that with the tiktokers, they are SYMPATHIZING with Osama Bin Laden. Taking his side. And that is a LACK of critical thinking, in my opinion.

Source: https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/16/tech/tiktok-osama-bin-laden-letter-to-america/index.html

Some young Americans on TikTok say they sympathize with Osama bin Laden

Dozens of young Americans have posted videos on TikTok this week expressing sympathy with Osama bin Laden, the notorious terrorist who orchestrated the September 11 attacks, for a two-decade-old letter he wrote critiquing the United States, including its government and support of Israel.

© Copyright Original Source

And

Source: https://www.newsweek.com/bin-laden-letter-us-stuns-young-americans-he-was-right-1844234

"It's actually so mind-blowing to me that terrorism has been sold as this idea to the American people…that this group of people, this random group of people, just suddenly wakes up one day and just hates you…it doesn't make sense," another TikTok user said.

A few TikTok reactions to the letter show users recreating their joy at hearing of Bin Laden's death in 2011, then contrasting it with their shock at reading the letter in 2023, adding the phrase "he was right."

© Copyright Original Source

And from what I see of Gond's post, he agrees with them. He think American is to blame for OBL attacking us. He also believes that Israel is to blame for Hamas attacking them. He is taking the side of the terrorists. But when called out on it, he denies it.

Notice how neither of your links managed to show anyone praising or "expressing sympathy" yet you simply swallowed what the news agency told you hook line and sinker.

[Ronson]

That is fine, understanding your enemy. And understanding that everyone has their "reasons" and rationalizations for what they do. OBL though the USA was evil because we supported Israel, and we are sinners and userers, etc.

I haven't read his manifesto and I doubt I ever will (I know, that runs counter to "understanding what motivates your enemies"). It's just an overall policy of mine. Ted Kaczynski wrote a manifesto to tell the world why he murdered people. What's more important, he murdered people. And since I think part of the reason he murdered people was to get people to listen to him, I don't want to honor that desire by listening to him. The same goes for Audrey Hale. "You targeted and killed innocent children. I'm not interested in anything you have to say." OBL falls under a slightly different category because he wasn't a solitary actor. He led a group of like-minded people that wanted to change US policy, and Al Qaida still exists and is still potentially dangerous, so having some knowledge is helpful.

Like one piece here about "OBL thought the USA was evil because we supported Israel." From interviews of his that I gleaned from, that didn't appear to be his main motivation. It was because Saudi Arabia allowed the US to station troops near Mecca, or near enough, during the Gulf War. We were infidels that shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near their holy land.

But from what I can tell it goes beyond that with the tiktokers, they are SYMPATHIZING with Osama Bin Laden. Taking his side. And that is a LACK of critical thinking, in my opinion.

It depends on why they reached that conclusion. Did their public-school teachers direct them in their thinking? To side with someone that wants/wanted to kill you is idiotic, sort of like "Gays for Hamas." But if they agree that the US shouldn't have a permanent presence in these barbaric wastelands, then I agree.

Source: https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/16/tech/tiktok-osama-bin-laden-letter-to-america/index.html

Some young Americans on TikTok say they sympathize with Osama bin Laden

Dozens of young Americans have posted videos on TikTok this week expressing sympathy with Osama bin Laden, the notorious terrorist who orchestrated the September 11 attacks, for a two-decade-old letter he wrote critiquing the United States, including its government and support of Israel.

© Copyright Original Source

And

Source: https://www.newsweek.com/bin-laden-letter-us-stuns-young-americans-he-was-right-1844234

"It's actually so mind-blowing to me that terrorism has been sold as this idea to the American people…that this group of people, this random group of people, just suddenly wakes up one day and just hates you…it doesn't make sense," another TikTok user said.

A few TikTok reactions to the letter show users recreating their joy at hearing of Bin Laden's death in 2011, then contrasting it with their shock at reading the letter in 2023, adding the phrase "he was right."

© Copyright Original Source

I don't have enough motivation to investigate, but I wouldn't be surprised if some/many of these "Americans" are actually foreign trolls. Especially considering CNN and Newsweek are the sources. I don't trust either of them to do much investigating.

And from what I see of Gond's post, he agrees with them. He think American is to blame for OBL attacking us. He also believes that Israel is to blame for Hamas attacking them. He is taking the side of the terrorists. But when called out on it, he denies it.

The Israel/Palestine subject is so complicated that it makes my head spin.

As far as OBL, he did not represent any state population. He had no official position and acted illegally - regardless of what exactly he was doing. It turned out what he was doing was murder.

[rogue06]