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Should GM renounce some of its bailout immunity?

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  • Should GM renounce some of its bailout immunity?

    The internal documents that have come to light this week that reveal that GM knew about its faulty ignition switches for years but chose not to disclose them (and even pushed back against some accident victim's families) are troublesome. However, due to terms agreed to during the bailout, GM has no liability for anything prior to June 1, 2009. Obviously, we cannot force the company to renege on the terms of its agreement, but public pressure can always be leveraged at the least.


    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/gm-recal...lout-immunity/
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/25/bu...thal-flaw.html
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  • #2
    The law should be changed such that the relevant people in the companies can be criminally prosecuted for deaths, injuries etc. caused by knowingly witholding such information.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by KingsGambit
      Obviously, we cannot force the company to renege on the terms of its agreement, but public pressure can always be leveraged at the least.
      Oh hell no. That line is a reprehensible condensation of the mindset of 'doing ineffectual good to make myself feel better,' rather than doing the right thing, and will empower a thousand future corporate and government spinmeisters, who are in fact experts at dealing with public reputation through doubletalk.

      A supposedly public agreement conducted under false pretenses and perverse incentives is null and void. "We can't enforce laws against fraud, but we can whine vaguely about them publicly" is the very worst way to do this.

      If you're not aiming for bodies to rot in cells or blood to run in the streets, stop talking now. Democracy is a sham, and appealing to the mob is a policy that no sane and honest man takes, especially today.

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      • #4
        Not that I agree at all points with Chinese law, but stuff like this
        SHIJIAZHUANG, China A Chinese court on Thursday sentenced two men to death for their role in the production and sale of melamine-tainted milk that killed at least six children and made nearly 300,000 ill.
        is probably more than just.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
          Oh hell no. That line is a reprehensible condensation of the mindset of 'doing ineffectual good to make myself feel better,' rather than doing the right thing, and will empower a thousand future corporate and government spinmeisters, who are in fact experts at dealing with public reputation through doubletalk.

          A supposedly public agreement conducted under false pretenses and perverse incentives is null and void. "We can't enforce laws against fraud, but we can whine vaguely about them publicly" is the very worst way to do this.

          If you're not aiming for bodies to rot in cells or blood to run in the streets, stop talking now. Democracy is a sham, and appealing to the mob is a policy that no sane and honest man takes, especially today.
          Er, a bit over the top, Epo, but essentially correct.

          We are a nation of laws, not mob rule. GM has no legal obligation - and arguably no moral one - to renounce its contractual protections. If the agreement wasn't violated it's the government's fault for not including a pretty obvious clause about negligence/criminal behavior.

          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
            Er, a bit over the top, Epo, but essentially correct.

            We are a nation of laws, not mob rule. GM has no legal obligation - and arguably no moral one - to renounce its contractual protections. If the agreement wasn't violated it's the government's fault for not including a pretty obvious clause about negligence/criminal behavior.
            I'm certain GM has no interest in moral obligations after years of using lawyers to bully victim's families for what they knew was their fault all along. Thus the need for public pressure.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              I'm certain GM has no interest in moral obligations after years of using lawyers to bully victim's families for what they knew was their fault all along. Thus the need for public pressure.
              But on the government to pursue the matter in court. If your right and the evidence proves it, let the courts take GM to task. If you're wrong, you have public pressure forcing a company to act against its own interests despite its rights - bad precedent to be setting.

              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                But on the government to pursue the matter in court. If your right and the evidence proves it, let the courts take GM to task. If you're wrong, you have public pressure forcing a company to act against its own interests despite its rights - bad precedent to be setting.
                If enough consumers stay away, then clearly the company is no longer acting in its own best interests anyway.
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  If enough consumers stay away, then clearly the company is no longer acting in its own best interests anyway.
                  True - but that's a separate issue from trying to rewrite contract law with mob rule.

                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                    Er, a bit over the top, Epo, but essentially correct.

                    We are a nation of laws, not mob rule. GM has no legal obligation - and arguably no moral one - to renounce its contractual protections. If the agreement wasn't violated it's the government's fault for not including a pretty obvious clause about negligence/criminal behavior.
                    I think you misunderstood Epo's post, he's saying GM should be stripped of its legal protection.
                    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                      The internal documents that have come to light this week that reveal that GM knew about its faulty ignition switches for years but chose not to disclose them (and even pushed back against some accident victim's families) are troublesome. However, due to terms agreed to during the bailout, GM has no liability for anything prior to June 1, 2009. Obviously, we cannot force the company to renege on the terms of its agreement, but public pressure can always be leveraged at the least.


                      http://www.cbsnews.com/news/gm-recal...lout-immunity/
                      http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/25/bu...thal-flaw.html

                      Well, looks like I'll never buy a new GM, ever, until they do something about their criminal actives.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                        I think you misunderstood Epo's post, he's saying GM should be stripped of its legal protection.


                        I'll look at it again when I have time.

                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                        Comment

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