Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Jared kushners 2 billion dollars

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Jared kushners 2 billion dollars

    Started this thread so people can talk about thier theories about what conspiracies are behind the 2 billion payment to a private equity fund.

  • #2
    The main claims about Kushner seem to be:

    1. He bought 666 Fifth Avenue for record price on the eve of the 2008/9 financial crisis. At the time it was allegedly the most that had ever been paid for an office building - an overpriced buy even by the standards of the already-massively-inflated property market at that time. Then when the recession hit and they couldn't rent the space, the financial hole he was in became truly dire.

    2. He used his government position relating to US foreign policy in the middle east to secure a financial bail-out, and did so in various ways varied from morally atrocious to all but treasonous against the US, or both:

    a) He used his position to get hold of top secret presidential briefing papers that indicated who US spies in Saudi Arabia were, and others in Saudi who would side more with the US than the Saudi regime. Kushner gave this information to Saudi leadership, who promptly had them all killed. The US intelligence agencies apparently realized what had happened, and immediately acted to revoke Kushner's security clearance to stop him getting his hands on more US secrets.

    b) After Saudi leadership had the US journalist Jamal Khashoggi murdered, Kushner got the Trump administration to take absolutely minimal action in response.

    c) Kushner tried to pressure the government of Qatar to cover his financial debts. When they refused, he encouraged the Saudis to institute a blockade on Qatar, which they did. Allegedly, Kushner encouraged them to invade Qatar (which contains US military bases), and allegedly an invasion was a near-run thing with only panicked intervention by the State Department and US military telling the Saudis that they didn't have US permission to invade Qatar and that Kushner wasn't entitled to speak for the US on this subject. (For those that don't recall history, Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait occurred after he came to believe he had US blessings to go ahead with it)

    d) Various other corrupt actions and favors for the Saudis.

    3. The Saudis, as thanks for Kushner's actions, gave him $2b in investment, which solved his financial problems. The Saudi leadership signed off on it over the objections of their advisors that it was not in any way a financially sensible deal for their country.


    For comparison, Hunter Biden is being accused of receiving about $20 million total in foreign money in exchange for delivering them very little. So Kushner is being accused of receiving one hundred times as much foreign money as Hunter, in exchange for doing things that seem pretty treasonous. The fact that Kushner isn't being talked about and investigated at least a hundred times as much as Hunter, is pretty shocking. Even if the allegations about Kushner turn out to be false, it seems like it would be in everyone's interests to make sure they were false and that he didn't sell the Saudis a list of US spies or almost start a war in the middle east because Qatar wouldn't give him personally some money, because those are fairly serious claim to just have floating out there improperly investigated.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      The main claims about Kushner seem to be:

      1. He bought 666 Fifth Avenue for record price on the eve of the 2008/9 financial crisis. At the time it was allegedly the most that had ever been paid for an office building - an overpriced buy even by the standards of the already-massively-inflated property market at that time. Then when the recession hit and they couldn't rent the space, the financial hole he was in became truly dire.

      2. He used his government position relating to US foreign policy in the middle east to secure a financial bail-out, and did so in various ways varied from morally atrocious to all but treasonous against the US, or both:

      a) He used his position to get hold of top secret presidential briefing papers that indicated who US spies in Saudi Arabia were, and others in Saudi who would side more with the US than the Saudi regime. Kushner gave this information to Saudi leadership, who promptly had them all killed. The US intelligence agencies apparently realized what had happened, and immediately acted to revoke Kushner's security clearance to stop him getting his hands on more US secrets.

      b) After Saudi leadership had the US journalist Jamal Khashoggi murdered, Kushner got the Trump administration to take absolutely minimal action in response.

      c) Kushner tried to pressure the government of Qatar to cover his financial debts. When they refused, he encouraged the Saudis to institute a blockade on Qatar, which they did. Allegedly, Kushner encouraged them to invade Qatar (which contains US military bases), and allegedly an invasion was a near-run thing with only panicked intervention by the State Department and US military telling the Saudis that they didn't have US permission to invade Qatar and that Kushner wasn't entitled to speak for the US on this subject. (For those that don't recall history, Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait occurred after he came to believe he had US blessings to go ahead with it)

      d) Various other corrupt actions and favors for the Saudis.

      3. The Saudis, as thanks for Kushner's actions, gave him $2b in investment, which solved his financial problems. The Saudi leadership signed off on it over the objections of their advisors that it was not in any way a financially sensible deal for their country.


      For comparison, Hunter Biden is being accused of receiving about $20 million total in foreign money in exchange for delivering them very little. So Kushner is being accused of receiving one hundred times as much foreign money as Hunter, in exchange for doing things that seem pretty treasonous. The fact that Kushner isn't being talked about and investigated at least a hundred times as much as Hunter, is pretty shocking. Even if the allegations about Kushner turn out to be false, it seems like it would be in everyone's interests to make sure they were false and that he didn't sell the Saudis a list of US spies or almost start a war in the middle east because Qatar wouldn't give him personally some money, because those are fairly serious claim to just have floating out there improperly investigated.
      Do you have links for the spy theory?

      Comment


      • #4
        According to unnamed Riyadh "sources", Prince Salman bragged that he got confidential CIA information from Kushner (in 2017, I believe) that included a list of names of influential Saudis critical of him. Salman had them rounded up and held prisoner, some tortured, until he secured control over them and their wealth. Reportedly, one or more of these prisoners died in captivity.

        Immediately after Trump left office, Kushner set up an equity firm and secured a $2 billion investment from Saudi Arabia. Against the advice of Saudi officials because of Kushner's inexperience in such matters, Salman overruled them and made the investment anyway.

        This certainly has the appearance of impropriety. If true that Kushner gave confidential information to Salman, then this would appear to be payback, and must be criminal. Kushner would be allowed to give confidential information to the Saudis if authorized by President Trump, but he could never accept any gift or "investment" from them forever afterwards.

        It all needs to be investigated; who the unnamed sources are, if the disclosure by Kushner ever really happened, if it was authorized by Trump, and if Trump benefitted from it. It is potentially quite serious stuff that doesn't seem to be getting much attention, while Trump is being charged and hounded over relatively trivial matters.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          Kushner gave this information to Saudi leadership, who promptly had them all killed.
          Not that this is relevant, but where did you get that info from? I understand that one (maybe two) people died while being held by Salman.

          As far as criminality on Kushner's part, it is irrelevant anyway because Kushner wouldn't have been informed by Salman that he intended to kill anyone on this list.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ronson View Post

            Not that this is relevant, but where did you get that info from? I understand that one (maybe two) people died while being held by Salman.

            As far as criminality on Kushner's part, it is irrelevant anyway because Kushner wouldn't have been informed by Salman that he intended to kill anyone on this list.
            It was his comment on this in another thread that prompted me to start this one. It's the level of comment that reeks of "conspiracy theory" to me. At a bare minimum, even your post above sounds like second hand rumormongering of the same type as all the "Clinton Deaths" are.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

              It was his comment on this in another thread that prompted me to start this one. It's the level of comment that reeks of "conspiracy theory" to me. At a bare minimum, even your post above sounds like second hand rumormongering of the same type as all the "Clinton Deaths" are.
              Of course it is conspiracy theory. The crux of it is based on unnamed "sources" that Salman even bragged about it, much less that Kushner did anything at all (even if it turns out that Salman did brag, that doesn't make it true).

              Unless and until it is investigated to find if there are actual connections, it is a question mark - but one I think deserves attention.

              Comment


              • #8
                Timeline on Jared Kushner, Qatar, 666 Fifth Avenue, and White House Policy
                .
                When the Kushner Companies purchased 666 Fifth Avenue in midtown Manhattan in early 2007 for a record-breaking price of $1.8 billion, it was supposed to be a center of their real estate portfolio. Instead, the Kushners have struggled to cover their debt on the troubled building since shortly after its purchase on the eve of the financial crisis. As Jared Kushner’s father-in-law, Donald J. Trump, was running for President, the Kushners were pitching Qatari investors to help bail out the building. And just weeks after his father Charles reportedly failed to reach a deal with Qatar’s minister of finance, Jared Kushner, in his capacity as a senior adviser to President Trump, reportedly played a central role in supporting a blockade of Qatar by Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. Kushner never disclosed his meeting with Saudi Arabia and the UAE on the blockade to Secretary of State Rex Tillerson at the time. Later, a financial company tied to Qatar brokered an especially valuable deal to rescue the Kushner Companies’ property at 666 Fifth Avenue.

                The Qatari bailout at 666 was worth substantially more to the Kushners than the $2B Saudi investment. To be clear, that doesn't translate to $2B to Kushner. It translates to the management fee on that $2B, call it 2 percent. So while the bailout was worth more than $1B directly, the management fees on the Saudi investment will net his fund only $40MM a year.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                  Of course it is conspiracy theory. The crux of it is based on unnamed "sources" that Salman even bragged about it, much less that Kushner did anything at all (even if it turns out that Salman did brag, that doesn't make it true).

                  Unless and until it is investigated to find if there are actual connections, it is a question mark - but one I think deserves attention.
                  At this point it is nothing but rumors.

                  Let's see if there is anything nearly like the amount of evidence supporting the claim as there is with Hunter and old Joe.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    At this point it is nothing but rumors.
                    It is more than just rumors. That Salman got a list of enemies and imprisoned them at the Riyadh Ritz is documented and even photographed. That Kushner's equity got $2 billion from the Saudis shortly after Trump left office is also documented. That Salman bragged about getting the enemy list from Kushner is the unsubstantiated part.

                    Let's see if there is anything nearly like the amount of evidence supporting the claim as there is with Hunter and old Joe.
                    It isn't an either/or situation. My amazement here is with the comparison - that Trump is being pursued for not giving back documents and for hush money to a porn star, when something potentially far more serious is ignored.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                      It is more than just rumors. That Salman got a list of enemies and imprisoned them at the Riyadh Ritz is documented and even photographed. That Kushner's equity got $2 billion from the Saudis shortly after Trump left office is also documented. That Salman bragged about getting the enemy list from Kushner is the unsubstantiated part.
                      And that's where the rumor steps in. It is hard to start a rumor that doesn't have some underpinning in a few facts.

                      Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                      It isn't an either/or situation. My amazement here is with the comparison - that Trump is being pursued for not giving back documents and for hush money to a porn star, when something potentially far more serious is ignored.
                      That the feds seem to not have any interest apparently could be used as a way to judge the veracity of the claim.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        And that's where the rumor steps in. It is hard to start a rumor that doesn't have some underpinning in a few facts.

                        That the feds seem to not have any interest apparently could be used as a way to judge the veracity of the claim.
                        I think it has more to do with difficulty. They are pursuing the low-hanging fruit, because getting workable evidence from Riyadh would be problematic. After what happened to Khashoggi, the Saudi "sources" wouldn't likely expose their identities, and furtherance would rely on their testimony and credibility.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          The main claims about Kushner seem to be:

                          1. He bought 666 Fifth Avenue for record price on the eve of the 2008/9 financial crisis. At the time it was allegedly the most that had ever been paid for an office building - an overpriced buy even by the standards of the already-massively-inflated property market at that time. Then when the recession hit and they couldn't rent the space, the financial hole he was in became truly dire.

                          2. He used his government position relating to US foreign policy in the middle east to secure a financial bail-out, and did so in various ways varied from morally atrocious to all but treasonous against the US, or both:

                          a) He used his position to get hold of top secret presidential briefing papers that indicated who US spies in Saudi Arabia were, and others in Saudi who would side more with the US than the Saudi regime. Kushner gave this information to Saudi leadership, who promptly had them all killed. The US intelligence agencies apparently realized what had happened, and immediately acted to revoke Kushner's security clearance to stop him getting his hands on more US secrets.

                          b) After Saudi leadership had the US journalist Jamal Khashoggi murdered, Kushner got the Trump administration to take absolutely minimal action in response.

                          c) Kushner tried to pressure the government of Qatar to cover his financial debts. When they refused, he encouraged the Saudis to institute a blockade on Qatar, which they did. Allegedly, Kushner encouraged them to invade Qatar (which contains US military bases), and allegedly an invasion was a near-run thing with only panicked intervention by the State Department and US military telling the Saudis that they didn't have US permission to invade Qatar and that Kushner wasn't entitled to speak for the US on this subject. (For those that don't recall history, Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait occurred after he came to believe he had US blessings to go ahead with it)

                          d) Various other corrupt actions and favors for the Saudis.

                          3. The Saudis, as thanks for Kushner's actions, gave him $2b in investment, which solved his financial problems. The Saudi leadership signed off on it over the objections of their advisors that it was not in any way a financially sensible deal for their country.


                          For comparison, Hunter Biden is being accused of receiving about $20 million total in foreign money in exchange for delivering them very little. So Kushner is being accused of receiving one hundred times as much foreign money as Hunter, in exchange for doing things that seem pretty treasonous. The fact that Kushner isn't being talked about and investigated at least a hundred times as much as Hunter, is pretty shocking. Even if the allegations about Kushner turn out to be false, it seems like it would be in everyone's interests to make sure they were false and that he didn't sell the Saudis a list of US spies or almost start a war in the middle east because Qatar wouldn't give him personally some money, because those are fairly serious claim to just have floating out there improperly investigated.
                          Thanks for the information. If true, as usual the GOP IS what they acuse democrats of being, only the Texas sized version.
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                            According to unnamed Riyadh "sources", Prince Salman bragged that he got confidential CIA information from Kushner (in 2017, I believe) that included a list of names of influential Saudis critical of him. Salman had them rounded up and held prisoner, some tortured, until he secured control over them and their wealth. Reportedly, one or more of these prisoners died in captivity.

                            Immediately after Trump left office, Kushner set up an equity firm and secured a $2 billion investment from Saudi Arabia. Against the advice of Saudi officials because of Kushner's inexperience in such matters, Salman overruled them and made the investment anyway.

                            This certainly has the appearance of impropriety. If true that Kushner gave confidential information to Salman, then this would appear to be payback, and must be criminal. Kushner would be allowed to give confidential information to the Saudis if authorized by President Trump, but he could never accept any gift or "investment" from them forever afterwards.

                            It all needs to be investigated; who the unnamed sources are, if the disclosure by Kushner ever really happened, if it was authorized by Trump, and if Trump benefitted from it. It is potentially quite serious stuff that doesn't seem to be getting much attention, while Trump is being charged and hounded over relatively trivial matters.
                            Curious that this would come out now when things are getting uncomfortable for the Biden family. A case of accusing your political opponents of what you are guilty of?
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                              Curious that this would come out now when things are getting uncomfortable for the Biden family. A case of accusing your political opponents of what you are guilty of?
                              This story has been around for at least a year and a half.

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by Cow Poke, Today, 09:29 AM
                              3 responses
                              19 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Ronson
                              by Ronson
                               
                              Started by Cow Poke, Today, 09:13 AM
                              0 responses
                              6 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post Cow Poke  
                              Started by seer, Yesterday, 06:18 PM
                              1 response
                              22 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Roy
                              by Roy
                               
                              Started by CivilDiscourse, Yesterday, 02:55 PM
                              2 responses
                              55 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Starlight  
                              Started by seer, Yesterday, 02:17 PM
                              16 responses
                              69 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post seer
                              by seer
                               
                              Working...
                              X