Ukrainian Nazis?

[Mountain Man]

Huh? It looks as if the rightists are trying to take control of lives where you are, not liberals. .

But in any case....... I don't think that US rightoids want to help Ukraine in any case. The World has been very relieved at President Biden's help..... the USA is supplying more military aid to Ukraine than all other countries put together, you know. So let's hope that democracy prevails at your next Presidential election.

Of course the "world" is relieved to watch idiot Joe throw good money after bad into the Ukraine quagmire, because it means they get to sit back and laugh while our economy implodes.

[eider]

I just wanted to clarify that, while the United States did delay entering the war, that wasn't the case for other non-European countries. For example, below are the dates various countries declared war on Germany:

1939-Sep-3 - New Zealand, Australia, India
1939-Sep-4 - Nepal
1939-Sep-6 - South Africa
1939-Sep-10 - Bahrain, Canada, Oman

and so on.

Yep....... the US did. A two year delay........ didn't the US delay in entering the First World War as well?
But I hope that I did make mention of the brave commonwealth pilots, soldiers and sailors that came to our shores?
Ah!........ you've got the Ghurkhas up there! My Dad fought with some of them and I still have his personal kukri.
We nearly got over-run......but because of Hitler's amazingly stupid mistakes we had a better chance of surviving, and that dreadful old dog Churchill's determination.

[eider]

Europe still can't wipe its own nose?

Nazis were part of Europe. Ukraine is part of Europe. Europe has nuclear capabilities, several formidable armies, and a powerful economy in the EU. Why must the US get dragged into any of this?

What ever did you join NATO for? I thought it was a collection of Western Nations all set to defend against (mostly) Russian aggression? No?
But we've got your message alright.,....... if a rightist US government takes control then Europe may yet be on its own...... again.

[eider]

Of course the "world" is relieved to watch idiot Joe throw good money after bad into the Ukraine quagmire, because it means they get to sit back and laugh while our economy implodes.

Who are these people who want to sit back and laugh at the US?
We sit back and laugh at such individuals as you, Yes, but we are all most grateful for the present US government's help.

If Putin succeeds in Ukraine then he'll overrun another country, and then another, trying to get back what was lost when the USSR collapsed. President Biden can see that....... but some of you would just sit back and laugh, I guess.

And in war one's allies can be most strange. 90 years ago we sent massive convoys to Russia with war machines, for free, even though Churchill hated them with a vengeance.
And so today Ukraine has some Nazi allies.
Usually we hate such people, Nazis murdered Jews, and Gays, and Blacks, and Gypsies, and Jehovah Witnesses in their concentration camps....... Oh hang on!!!!! That rings a bell!
Anyway, today Ukraine will be glad of any allies.

[Ronson]

Yep....... the US did. A two year delay........ didn't the US delay in entering the First World War as well?

The "First World War" is just another name for another European war.

What ever did you join NATO for? I thought it was a collection of Western Nations all set to defend against (mostly) Russian aggression? No?

To keep communism in check. According to its dogma, the Soviets were very expansionist. The last time I looked, the Soviet Union no longer exists.

But we've got your message alright.,....... if a rightist US government takes control then Europe may yet be on its own...... again.

You act like Europe is a vulnerable baby. It's not.

[rogue06]

I keep wanting to read the title as "Uranium Nazis" and thinking of radioactive nazi zombies. Would make a good B-movie.

Nazi Zombies are actually a trope.

"Overlord" did a pretty good recent take on them.

[rogue06]

I really don't see the importance of Nazi battalions in Ukraine. They don't run the government. If the U.S. was attacked and was fighting a ground war and there was a KKK battalion involved, I'd say "big deal." If they were fighting on my side, let them do it. Just because they exist and are fighting alongside official troops doesn't mean they are sanctioned or part of the government.

The Putin excuse to de-Nazify Ukraine was just that, an excuse. He thought it would resonate better with Russians than saying Crimea and eastern Ukraine should be annexed.

Russia has had its own issues with neo-Nazis.


Russia's long history of neo-Nazis: The roots of neo-Nazism in Putin’s Russia

The origins of this relationship date to the late 1990s, when Russia was shaken by a wave of racist violence committed by neo-Nazi skinhead gangs. After Putin’s accession to the presidency in 2000, his regime exploited this development in two ways.

First, it used the neo-Nazi threat to justify the adoption of anti-extremism legislation, a longstanding demand of some Russian liberals. Ultimately, this legislation would be used to prosecute Russian democrats.

Second, the Kremlin launched “managed nationalism”, an attempt to co-opt and mobilise radical nationalist militants, including neo-Nazis, as a counterweight to an emerging anti-Putin coalition of democrats and leftist radicals.

Moving Together, a pro-Putin youth organisation notorious for its campaign against postmodernist literature, made the first move by reaching out to OB88, the most powerful skinhead gang in Russia.

This cooperation expanded in the aftermath of Ukraine’s Orange Revolution of 2004. To insulate Russia against the contagion of pro-democracy protest, the Kremlin transformed Moving Together into a more ambitious project called “Nashi”, or “Ours”.

As part of its preparations to confront a potential democratic uprising in Russia, Nashi enlisted football gang members, whose subculture overlapped with the neo-Nazi underground.

During 2005, Nashi’s thugs staged a series of raids on anti-Putin youth groups. The most violent attack, which left four left-wing activists in hospital, led to the arrest of the assailants. They were released after a visit to the police station from Nikita Ivanov, the Kremlin functionary who supervised the regime’s loyalist youth organisations.

The resulting scandal provoked a reconfiguration of “managed nationalism”. While Nashi distanced itself from football gangs, its radical militants migrated to two rival Kremlin proxies, the nationalist “Young Russia” group and the anti-immigration “Locals” group. These organisations became bridges between the neo-Nazi subculture and the Kremlin.

The article continues as the links intensify

A column of neo-Nazis at the May Day procession in St. Petersburg, 2014

Then there is the Wagner Group.

Perhaps Moscow’s most notorious military proxy is the Wagner Group, mercenaries the Kremlin has used to wage deniable war and otherwise promote its interests in places like Syria, Libya and Mozambique. Recently the Wagner Group deployed to the Central African Republic, and it has shown up in Mali, where its brutal methods appear to be replacing previous efforts by the international community to fight terrorists active in the country.

The Wagner Group is named after the 19th century German composer Richard Wagner, whose music Adolf Hitler adored. The group’s leader, Dmitry Utkin, reportedly wears Nazi tattoos, including a swastika, a Nazi eagle and SS lightning bolts. Wagner mercenaries are reported to have left behind neo-Nazi propaganda in the war zones where they’ve fought, including graffiti with hate symbols.

The Wagner Group also has played a key role in Putin’s long war on Ukraine, with its fighters helping him illegally annex Crimea in 2014 and fighting alongside pro-Russia separatists in the country’s east since then.

Wiki has more.

In December 2016, Utkin was photographed with Russian President Vladimir Putin at a Kremlin reception given in honour of those who had been awarded the Order of Courage and the title Hero of the Russian Federation (to mark the Day of Heroes of the Fatherland [ru]), along with Alexander Kuznetsov, Andrey Bogatov [ru] and Andrei Troshev.^[98] Kuznetsov (call sign "Ratibor") was said to be the commander of Wagner's first reconnaissance and assault company, Bogatov was the commander of the fourth reconnaissance and assault company, and Troshev served as the company's "executive director".^[99] A few days after, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov confirmed the presence of Utkin at the reception, stating that Utkin was from the Novgorod Region and had received the award, but could not say for what except that it was presumably for courage. Peskov stated he was not aware how famous Utkin was.^[100][101]

It has been reported that Russian businessman Yevgeny Prigozhin—sometimes called "Putin's chef", because of his catering businesses that hosted dinners which Vladimir Putin attended with foreign dignitaries—^{[102][103][104]} has links with Wagner^[105][106] and Utkin personally.^[107][108] The businessman has been said to be the funder^[109][79] and actual owner of the Wagner Group.^[110][111] Prigozhin denied any communication with Wagner,^[112] until September 2022, when he admitted having created the group in a post at VKontakte.^[77]

Interestingly, it has been reported that some of those in the Wagner Group have turned on Russia and are actually fighting them in Ukraine.

In any case, Putin's calls to "de-nazify" Ukraine sound like the pot calling the kettle black.

[Diogenes]

I really don't see the importance of Nazi battalions in Ukraine.

Because the Left wants to clean up Ukraine's image after the "US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev" back during the Orange Revolution. The US has history of back undesirables to pursue its goals but the Left is quick to criticize such activities when the Republicans do it. The Left doesn't like optics of funding Neo-Nazi now even though they themselves raised the alarm of such entities.

[rogue06]

Because the Left wants to clean up Ukraine's image after the "US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev" back during the Orange Revolution. The US has history of back undesirables to pursue its goals but the Left is quick to criticize such activities when the Republicans do it. The Left doesn't like optics of funding Neo-Nazi now even though they themselves raised the alarm of such entities.

They're deep in bed with antifa, so what's one more group of fascists?

[seanD]

Russia has had its own issues with neo-Nazis.


Russia's long history of neo-Nazis: The roots of neo-Nazism in Putin’s Russia

The origins of this relationship date to the late 1990s, when Russia was shaken by a wave of racist violence committed by neo-Nazi skinhead gangs. After Putin’s accession to the presidency in 2000, his regime exploited this development in two ways.

First, it used the neo-Nazi threat to justify the adoption of anti-extremism legislation, a longstanding demand of some Russian liberals. Ultimately, this legislation would be used to prosecute Russian democrats.

Second, the Kremlin launched “managed nationalism”, an attempt to co-opt and mobilise radical nationalist militants, including neo-Nazis, as a counterweight to an emerging anti-Putin coalition of democrats and leftist radicals.

Moving Together, a pro-Putin youth organisation notorious for its campaign against postmodernist literature, made the first move by reaching out to OB88, the most powerful skinhead gang in Russia.

This cooperation expanded in the aftermath of Ukraine’s Orange Revolution of 2004. To insulate Russia against the contagion of pro-democracy protest, the Kremlin transformed Moving Together into a more ambitious project called “Nashi”, or “Ours”.

As part of its preparations to confront a potential democratic uprising in Russia, Nashi enlisted football gang members, whose subculture overlapped with the neo-Nazi underground.

During 2005, Nashi’s thugs staged a series of raids on anti-Putin youth groups. The most violent attack, which left four left-wing activists in hospital, led to the arrest of the assailants. They were released after a visit to the police station from Nikita Ivanov, the Kremlin functionary who supervised the regime’s loyalist youth organisations.

The resulting scandal provoked a reconfiguration of “managed nationalism”. While Nashi distanced itself from football gangs, its radical militants migrated to two rival Kremlin proxies, the nationalist “Young Russia” group and the anti-immigration “Locals” group. These organisations became bridges between the neo-Nazi subculture and the Kremlin.

The article continues as the links intensify

A column of neo-Nazis at the May Day procession in St. Petersburg, 2014

Then there is the Wagner Group.

Perhaps Moscow’s most notorious military proxy is the Wagner Group, mercenaries the Kremlin has used to wage deniable war and otherwise promote its interests in places like Syria, Libya and Mozambique. Recently the Wagner Group deployed to the Central African Republic, and it has shown up in Mali, where its brutal methods appear to be replacing previous efforts by the international community to fight terrorists active in the country.

The Wagner Group is named after the 19th century German composer Richard Wagner, whose music Adolf Hitler adored. The group’s leader, Dmitry Utkin, reportedly wears Nazi tattoos, including a swastika, a Nazi eagle and SS lightning bolts. Wagner mercenaries are reported to have left behind neo-Nazi propaganda in the war zones where they’ve fought, including graffiti with hate symbols.

The Wagner Group also has played a key role in Putin’s long war on Ukraine, with its fighters helping him illegally annex Crimea in 2014 and fighting alongside pro-Russia separatists in the country’s east since then.

Wiki has more.

In December 2016, Utkin was photographed with Russian President Vladimir Putin at a Kremlin reception given in honour of those who had been awarded the Order of Courage and the title Hero of the Russian Federation (to mark the Day of Heroes of the Fatherland [ru]), along with Alexander Kuznetsov, Andrey Bogatov [ru] and Andrei Troshev.^[98] Kuznetsov (call sign "Ratibor") was said to be the commander of Wagner's first reconnaissance and assault company, Bogatov was the commander of the fourth reconnaissance and assault company, and Troshev served as the company's "executive director".^[99] A few days after, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov confirmed the presence of Utkin at the reception, stating that Utkin was from the Novgorod Region and had received the award, but could not say for what except that it was presumably for courage. Peskov stated he was not aware how famous Utkin was.^[100][101]

It has been reported that Russian businessman Yevgeny Prigozhin—sometimes called "Putin's chef", because of his catering businesses that hosted dinners which Vladimir Putin attended with foreign dignitaries—^{[102][103][104]} has links with Wagner^[105][106] and Utkin personally.^[107][108] The businessman has been said to be the funder^[109][79] and actual owner of the Wagner Group.^[110][111] Prigozhin denied any communication with Wagner,^[112] until September 2022, when he admitted having created the group in a post at VKontakte.^[77]

Interestingly, it has been reported that some of those in the Wagner Group have turned on Russia and are actually fighting them in Ukraine.

In any case, Putin's calls to "de-nazify" Ukraine sound like the pot calling the kettle black.

And I'm sure if we ever stage a "color revolution" in Russia and start funding them to try and take down Putin's regime, US government and MSM will lie and deny they're there and call you a conspiracy theorist or Putin propagandist for saying this is who we're funding.

[Diogenes]

And I'm sure if we ever stage a "color revolution" in Russia and start funding them to try and take down Putin's regime, US government and MSM will lie and deny they're there and call you a conspiracy theorist or Putin propagandist for saying this is who we're funding.

There's a reason Russia and Belarus cracked down on foreign NGOs, but if you bring up Soros, you're just labelled an anti-Semite.

[eider]

The "First World War" is just another name for another European war.

What title do you Americans give for WWI ??

To keep communism in check. According to its dogma, the Soviets were very expansionist. The last time I looked, the Soviet Union no longer exists.

Snooze away, Ronson.
Meanwhile your country is helping the Ukraine as much as it can, so many of your countrymen don't quite see it your way.

You act like Europe is a vulnerable baby. It's not.

Well it's a good thing for Europe that you are not the President of the USA!

[seer]

Snooze away, Ronson.
Meanwhile your country is helping the Ukraine as much as it can, so many of your countrymen don't quite see it your way.

Though it is still a majority, this war is losing support with the American people. From 71% to 58% in one year, what do you think it will be a year from now since there is no end in sight?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/h...orc-poll-shows

Well it's a good thing for Europe that you are not the President of the USA!

So again, why is the EU not paying the lion's share for this war in their backyard? The EU economy is as large as the US.

[Diogenes]

What ever did you join NATO for?

The US didn't join NATO, it created NATO.

I thought it was a collection of Western Nations all set to defend against (mostly) Russian aggression?

The purpose of NATO was for the US to lead a bloc against the spread of communism in general but to also oppose both the Soviet Union and China. Europe basically hid under the US' skirt, as it still does today.

But we've got your message alright.,....... if a rightist US government takes control then Europe may yet be on its own...... again.

And Europe is still as incapable as ever needing the US military umbrella while complaining that the US does fund social welfare initiatives.

[Mountain Man]

Who are these people who want to sit back and laugh at the US?
We sit back and laugh at such individuals as you, Yes, but we are all most grateful for the present US government's help.

If Putin succeeds in Ukraine then he'll overrun another country, and then another, trying to get back what was lost when the USSR collapsed. President Biden can see that....... but some of you would just sit back and laugh, I guess.

And in war one's allies can be most strange. 90 years ago we sent massive convoys to Russia with war machines, for free, even though Churchill hated them with a vengeance.
And so today Ukraine has some Nazi allies.
Usually we hate such people, Nazis murdered Jews, and Gays, and Blacks, and Gypsies, and Jehovah Witnesses in their concentration camps....... Oh hang on!!!!! That rings a bell!
Anyway, today Ukraine will be glad of any allies.

Maybe Europe should step up and take interest in what's happening in its own backyard instead of sitting back and laughing as the US spends itself into bankruptcy to support a corrupt government in a war that has nothing to do with us.