Where is it all going?

[rogue06]

Latinx is a neologism in American English which is used to refer to people of Latin American cultural or ethnic identity in the United States. The gender-neutral ⟨-x⟩ suffix replaces the ⟨-o/-a⟩ ending of Latino and Latina that are typical of grammatical gender in Spanish. Its plural is Latinxs.

ne·ol·o·gism

noun

1. a newly coined word or expression.

Interesting. I'll be dropping some neologisms here on out.

That would be plasmic.

[tabibito]

I still think there is a difference in trans realities between native gendered language speakers and those of non-gendered language. In a gendered language, the trans person is continually reminded that there is only male and female through the very language he or she speaks. There has to be a difference in experience don't you think?

Not the point I was initially wanting to make, but it's an interesting spin off.

Trying to explain how gendered languages work to a speaker of a non-gendered language is not an easy task. The gender of a word has nothing to do with the gender of the object that the word refers to. Just quickly, in Welsh, the word for "bird" is a feminine noun. Even when Welsh speakers refer to a bird that they know perfectly well is a male, the appropriate pronoun is "she" (or whatever "she" is in Welsh) - and the bird will be called a girl. All that the masculine, feminine, neuter (however many neuters there may be) noun really means is that the word shares the same articles with the articles used for male, female, or neither.

[Machinist]

Trying to explain how gendered languages work to a speaker of a non-gendered language is not an easy task. The gender of a word has nothing to do with the gender of the object that the word refers to. Just quickly, in Welsh, the word for "bird" is a feminine noun. Even when Welsh speakers refer to a bird that they know perfectly well is a male, the appropriate pronoun is "she" (or whatever "she" is in Welsh) - and the bird will be called a girl. All that the masculine, feminine, neuter (however many neuters there may be) noun really means is that the word shares the same articles with the articles used for male, female, or neither.

I read that Indo-European languages (and I don't know what that is really), but their reality is either animate or inanimate.

[Machinist]

That would be plasmic.

I like it. Plasmic. It sounds nice.

[tabibito]

I read that Indo-European languages (and I don't know what that is really), but their reality is either animate or inanimate.

Indo-European

• Afrikaans (Afrikaans has three gendered pronouns, but no other grammatical gender, very similar to English.)
• Armenian
• Bengali
• Dhivehi
• English (English has three gendered pronouns, but no longer has grammatical gender in the sense of noun class distinctions.)
• Konkani
• Kurdish (Central and Southern Dialects only.)
• Nepali (Has gendered pronouns but no grammatical genders.)
• Odia
• Ossetic
• Persian

[Machinist]

Indo-European

• Afrikaans (Afrikaans has three gendered pronouns, but no other grammatical gender, very similar to English.)
• Armenian
• Bengali
• Dhivehi
• English (English has three gendered pronouns, but no longer has grammatical gender in the sense of noun class distinctions.)
• Konkani
• Kurdish (Central and Southern Dialects only.)
• Nepali (Has gendered pronouns but no grammatical genders.)
• Odia
• Ossetic
• Persian

I'll have to look it up. It was some language where their parts of speech were either animate or inanimate, instead of being male or female.

[Machinist]

My overall point had to do with how all this evolves, and my thinking was that language evolves when realities evolve and millennials are being taught different realities. So there will be this entirely new population with a new reality than former generations. So where does it all go from here? There will still be those who believe there is only male and female. So if their reality confronts this other reality, it would seem that this would be a point in history where we would see language evolve and probably very quickly. Now this is all barring the Return of Christ, or a meteor crashing into the planet, etc.

And if we could compare this to the evolution of species, I've always wondered where is the transitional fossil evidence? It seems quite scant. However, I've also heard that part of the reason there isn't much, is because it all happened so quickly. So if there is any parallel here between the evolution of species and the evolution of language, what we might witness here within a matter or years is linguistic evolution in action. I think that we're living in exciting times in that regard, just watching something this huge unfold.

Kind of like the Amero. There was brief talk years ago about it. It's the new dollar for the North American Continent. I think it would be very interesting to live through times where things that huge were changing.

[Diogenes]

One more thing then ya'll can let this drop:



Some languages—including Spanish and Russian, for example—classify nouns as either masculine or feminine (or sometimes even neuter). Recent experiments in political science have shown that gendered languages that classify nouns this way are associated with more regressive gender attitudes

Gendered Languages May Play a Role in Limiting Women’s Opportunities, New Research Finds

I would highly doubt this is a result of the language itself but rather mostly due to level of Europeanization. The gender nonsense is, a long with a lot things, is a European phenomenon. I would count the US as Europeanized given both its history and the US intelligentsia who tend to be annoyed by cultural plebeians.

What Happens If You’re Genderqueer — But Your Native Language Is Gendered?

Having a mental problem is independent of whether your native language is gendered or not.

[Gondwanaland]

One more thing then ya'll can let this drop:



Some languages—including Spanish and Russian, for example—classify nouns as either masculine or feminine (or sometimes even neuter). Recent experiments in political science have shown that gendered languages that classify nouns this way are associated with more regressive gender attitudes

Gendered Languages May Play a Role in Limiting Women’s Opportunities, New Research Finds




What Happens If You’re Genderqueer — But Your Native Language Is Gendered?



This is somewhat along the lines of what I was thinking, not exactly, but some good reference here. Civics may not be the right forum for it.

Well that's the thing, gender used to ONLY be something that was a language thing. Then (another) pervert named John Money came up with the idea of gender as a social construct and as something distinct from sex (IIRC he also introduced the terms 'sexual orientation' and, interestingly, 'gender roles'). Money is also known for his butchery and perversion that led to the deaths of two boys. He convinced some parents to do sex reassignment on their son who had received a botched circumcision (don't let me go down that can of worms of circumcision being nothing more than genital mutilation) and convinced them to raise him as a female. He then would go on to tout it as the first successful gender reassignment. He then experimented on the boy and his twin (who was raised without said 'sex reassignment' as a boy), and the pervert had them rehearse sexual acts with one another as young children, and aggressively yelled at them when they didn't want to inspect one another's genitals. Eventually the boy found out he was born a boy. And some years later he killed himself, followed by his twin 2 years later. So yeah, that's where 'gender' comes from, outside of its prior application being just in language.

[Gondwanaland]

Trying to explain how gendered languages work to a speaker of a non-gendered language is not an easy task. The gender of a word has nothing to do with the gender of the object that the word refers to. Just quickly, in Welsh, the word for "bird" is a feminine noun. Even when Welsh speakers refer to a bird that they know perfectly well is a male, the appropriate pronoun is "she" (or whatever "she" is in Welsh) - and the bird will be called a girl. All that the masculine, feminine, neuter (however many neuters there may be) noun really means is that the word shares the same articles with the articles used for male, female, or neither.

Yep. And interestingly, various languages have words with different 'gender' for the same objects Key in German is 'male' and in French it is 'female'. Meanwhile book in Polish is 'feminine' and I believe it is 'neuter' in German. Even in languages that are very closely related there can be different genders for the same object (milk is 'female' in Spanish but 'male' in Portuguese). But yeah, it has zero to do with the actual sex or 'gender' of what is being referred to (in the case of animals, etc.)

[Gondwanaland]

I read that Indo-European languages (and I don't know what that is really), but their reality is either animate or inanimate.

I know that's the case for some Native American tribes.

For Algonquin in particular this is an interesting article.paper: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q90...def5Mj6XH/view

[Machinist]

Well that's the thing, gender used to ONLY be something that was a language thing. Then (another) pervert named John Money came up with the idea of gender as a social construct and as something distinct from sex (IIRC he also introduced the terms 'sexual orientation' and, interestingly, 'gender roles'). Money is also known for his butchery and perversion that led to the deaths of two boys. He convinced some parents to do sex reassignment on their son who had received a botched circumcision (don't let me go down that can of worms of circumcision being nothing more than genital mutilation) and convinced them to raise him as a female. He then would go on to tout it as the first successful gender reassignment. He then experimented on the boy and his twin (who was raised without said 'sex reassignment' as a boy), and the pervert had them rehearse sexual acts with one another as young children, and aggressively yelled at them when they didn't want to inspect one another's genitals. Eventually the boy found out he was born a boy. And some years later he killed himself, followed by his twin 2 years later. So yeah, that's where 'gender' comes from, outside of its prior application being just in language.

I just watched What is woman and learned about Money. The name is ironic.

[Sparko]

One more thing then ya'll can let this drop:



Some languages—including Spanish and Russian, for example—classify nouns as either masculine or feminine (or sometimes even neuter). Recent experiments in political science have shown that gendered languages that classify nouns this way are associated with more regressive gender attitudes

Gendered Languages May Play a Role in Limiting Women’s Opportunities, New Research Finds




What Happens If You’re Genderqueer — But Your Native Language Is Gendered?



This is somewhat along the lines of what I was thinking, not exactly, but some good reference here. Civics may not be the right forum for it.

In many gendered languages the gender of a noun doesn't always correlate to whether the gendered pronoun is referring to a male, female, or object. Kind of like how we use "she" to refer to boats. In german, "the little girl" is Das Mädchen. where "das" is gender neutral, "the boy" is "der Jungen" which is male, and "the Woman" is "Die Frau" which is Feminine. "the airplane" is "Das Flugzeug" - neutral, while "the airplanes" is "Die Flugzeuge" which is feminine.

[alaskazimm]

In many gendered languages the gender of a noun doesn't always correlate to whether the gendered pronoun is referring to a male, female, or object. Kind of like how we use "she" to refer to boats. In german, "the little girl" is Das Mädchen. where "das" is gender neutral, "the boy" is "der Jungen" which is male, and "the Woman" is "Die Frau" which is Feminine. "the airplane" is "Das Flugzeug" - neutral, while "the airplanes" is "Die Flugzeuge" which is feminine.

In German, Die is feminine or plural depending on the word it's being used with. So in the case of Die Flugzeuge it is not feminine but plural because of the final 'e' making Flugzeug a plural noun.

[Diogenes]

Where it's all going is the destruction "traditional" society in favor of one based on critical consciousness and ultimately Marxism. The purpose of the language was is if language is policed, then ultimately how people think will be policed as thinking is influenced by language. The easiest way is to make people an ideological ally however those who resist the ideology can be, in the least, socially policed if not outright policed by the State. The issue over pronouns isn't just about pronouns but rather forcing performative acceptance of the critical consciousness. It's similar to shunning, shamming, or guilt tripping. There's no need to rebuttal the dissenters if you can socially shame and ostracise them.