Bud Light: Nobody can chase off customers like us ... Target: Hold MY beer.

[rogue06]

You misunderstand the nature of my comment, though less than others and so I'll respond. The facts are what they are -- you and a number of other Christians here treated lies as truth in service of attacking others. When they were exposed as lies (something you should have examined prior to jumping on the wagon), being caught up in a lie didn't elicit any sort of apology or introspection. Me stating as much is a "stink bomb" only in the sense that people here have gotten themselves so blindly used to that foul habit that someone throwing a window open every now and exposing the miasma to light is revelatory. I'm happy enough to perform that function once every great while but I'm hardly expected to stick around and argue about who made the stink. The facts are what they are, plainly visible to all.

You and any other Christian here can look back on the thread and ask "Did I join an attack on others based on a falsehood?" If so, you don't need me to walk you through how to make that right: apologize and quit doing it in the future. Given how that kind of reactionary chattering is the essence of TWeb's Civics forum, that'll probably mean reducing your footprint here. You may even be compelled to start making amends by pointing out to others still engaging in the pragmatic use of truth that they're doing something wrong and damaging their public-facing ministry in the process. If you go that route, you'll end up in a bunch of useless arguments with people who really don't want to be told that they should stop giving themselves up to lies so readily. Once you've established that, there's nothing cowardly or inappropriate with "shaking off the dust" and taking leave of a community who practice neither Christ's radical lovingkindness nor His unwavering commitment to truth.

And if a careful read-through of this thread doesn't speak to you like that, there's hardly any point in arguing about it anyway, is there?

-Sam

I'm curious if you might have a response to tab's post:

Struggling sinners is one thing; people who declare their sins laudable and cause for pride, with anyone who disagrees being labelled evil, is another thing.

Oh. And hi. Long time, no see.

[seanD]

You misunderstand the nature of my comment, though less than others and so I'll respond. The facts are what they are -- you and a number of other Christians here treated lies as truth in service of attacking others. When they were exposed as lies (something you should have examined prior to jumping on the wagon), being caught up in a lie didn't elicit any sort of apology or introspection. Me stating as much is a "stink bomb" only in the sense that people here have gotten themselves so blindly used to that foul habit that someone throwing a window open every now and exposing the miasma to light is revelatory. I'm happy enough to perform that function once every great while but I'm hardly expected to stick around and argue about who made the stink. The facts are what they are, plainly visible to all.

You and any other Christian here can look back on the thread and ask "Did I join an attack on others based on a falsehood?" If so, you don't need me to walk you through how to make that right: apologize and quit doing it in the future. Given how that kind of reactionary chattering is the essence of TWeb's Civics forum, that'll probably mean reducing your footprint here. You may even be compelled to start making amends by pointing out to others still engaging in the pragmatic use of truth that they're doing something wrong and damaging their public-facing ministry in the process. If you go that route, you'll end up in a bunch of useless arguments with people who really don't want to be told that they should stop giving themselves up to lies so readily. Once you've established that, there's nothing cowardly or inappropriate with "shaking off the dust" and taking leave of a community who practice neither Christ's radical lovingkindness nor His unwavering commitment to truth.

And if a careful read-through of this thread doesn't speak to you like that, there's hardly any point in arguing about it anyway, is there?

-Sam

What "lie" are you referring to exactly? Even though a lot of us jumped the gun into believing the "Satan" shirt was being sold directly at Target, the lie for me personally would be for me to say that Satan is not associated with LGBTQ culture and how it's being aggressively and absurdly pushed onto western culture in general in the manner it's being pushed. Granted, I underestimated Target's marketing intelligence, but from a theological point of view, I believe all this is associated with Satan, and thus the shirt just underscores that belief.

[Sam]

Would you mind giving me an example of where I did that?

You were a thread participant and either believed the false pretense of the thread, knew it was false but decided to use the opportunity to opine (mistakenly) about the biblical strictures on pride*, or were ignorant of the content preceding your entry into the thread. I didn't have you specifically in mind when I drafted the post so if you really don't align with what I wrote then I wasn't talking about you or your behavior here; though I do think your response pretty clearly aligned yourself with the people and behavior I was speaking about, rather than acknowledging that the dual pretenses of the thread were indeed false and my point regarding Christian behavior was legitimate.

So if you're not one of the people whose behavior I was addressing and you don't want to align with their position, I won't put you in the group. You can decide from here forward whose behavior you want to focus on being inappropriate with regard to public-facing ministry.

-Sam


*An ethical examination of different categories of pride, both legitimate and illegitimate, is beyond the focus of my short time here.

[Sam]

I'm curious if you might have a response to tab's post:

I don't. The actions and motivations of people who celebrate LGBTQ Pride is wholly irrelevant to the issue I raised, which relates to how Christians act when they participate in a lie or something predicated on a lie. Even were tabibito's criticism legitimate, it is irrelevant chaff.

Oh. And hi. Long time, no see.

Hello. And, barring some unexpected reason to keep this going, goodbye again until some time in the farther future.

-Sam

[Sam]

What "lie" are you referring to exactly? Even though a lot of us jumped the gun into believing the "Satan" shirt was being sold directly at Target, the lie for me personally would be for me to say that Satan is not associated with LGBTQ culture and how it's being aggressively and absurdly pushed onto western culture in general in the manner it's being pushed. Granted, I underestimated Target's marketing intelligence, but from a theological point of view, I believe all this is associated with Satan, and thus the shirt just underscores that belief.

A lie in service of a "larger truth" remains a lie. And if one publicly participates in a lie — even if it's just by virtue of being duped — some form of restitution is appropriate.

I don't expect this to be a controversial statement in Christian ethics ... but neither do I expect it to change the culture of this forum.

-Sam

[seanD]

A lie in service of a "larger truth" remains a lie. And if one publicly participates in a lie — even if it's just by virtue of being duped — some form of restitution is appropriate.

I don't expect this to be a controversial statement in Christian ethics ... but neither do I expect it to change the culture of this forum.

-Sam

I doubt any of the comments in this thread budged Target's profit margin downward one iota. So "restitution" in the form of what exactly?

[Cow Poke]

You were a thread participant

I popped in, yes.

and either believed the false pretense of the thread, knew it was false but decided to use the opportunity to opine (mistakenly) about the biblical strictures on pride*, or were ignorant of the content preceding your entry into the thread.

Wow, that's quite a range!!!

I didn't have you specifically in mind when I drafted the post so if you really don't align with what I wrote then I wasn't talking about you or your behavior here;

Yet you rushed in with your judgmental broad brush....

though I do think your response pretty clearly aligned yourself with the people and behavior I was speaking about, rather than acknowledging that the dual pretenses of the thread were indeed false and my point regarding Christian behavior was legitimate.

I'm absolutely disgusted with all the woke crap that's going on, and I stand against it.... nothing the left does surprises me.

So if you're not one of the people whose behavior I was addressing and you don't want to align with their position, I won't put you in the group. You can decide from here forward whose behavior you want to focus on being inappropriate with regard to public-facing ministry.

-Sam

I'm against evil, Sam. As I have stated before, it's not "the left" anymore or "the liberals" -- it's the "progressives", and there can never be a point at which they say, "well, now.... we have reached our goal, and can stop here".

They are doing the work of Satan and they need to be called out for it.

[Gondwanaland]

Really didn't think it was that obtuse but since the consensus seems to be that way, I suppose I owe a clearer statement.

It was a bit of a rambling post, that brought up Charlie Kirk numerous times even though I don't believe he has even been mentioned on the thread.

Christians participating on this topic indulged themselves in two lies, that Target was 1) selling a specific shirt featuring Satan and 2) advertising transgender-accommodating swimwear to children. When the first lie was revealed as such, the Christians here didn't apologize for participating in the lie or even grapple with why or how they got so easily snookered. The subject was lightly commented on and then discarded and the second lie, still assumed to be true, was not reevaluated.

Lies? You'd have to show that it was done knowingly and willingly.

The thread went "cold" for several days then, until you posted another bit of chum that could spur some outrage and criticism.

I posted some news relevant to the topic. I'm sorry that upsets you. Maybe we could build you a safe space?

—I'll pause here to say that it's not at all impossible that some "trans radical" sent a bomb threat to "members@timcast.com". I will say that it's an awfully strange way to go about that sort of thing - do "trans radicals" normally send their violent messages to right-wing darling Tim Pool's subscription list?

What are you ranting about? Who brought up Tim Pool? Looks like you did. I certainly did not. The bomb threats were not sent to him that I know of.

Your incredulity is not a valid argument.

Back to topic: For the Christians on this board, they can look to Christ as a model of both immense kindness to vulnerable sinners and implacable commitment to truth. Generally, one finds an individual's Christian practice emphasizing one over the other — we all fail to measure up to the model and tend to err in one direction or the other. If, then, Christian folk here decide to lean further into a commitment to "the TRUTH", their Christian faith will (and should) be judged on how they practice adherence to truth.
What we see, in this thread and historically, is a lack of such commitment. Quite the opposite, we see something more approaching an attitude of truth as a pragmatic tool: something to be used rhetorically when advantageous and discarded when not. That's a problem with a simple, though perhaps not easy, solution.

-Sam

That's nice, I'm not a Christian and I suspect you're an uber-liberal one.

[rogue06]

Apparently a new rap song by Forgiato Blow (who calls himself the Mayor of MAGAville) called "Boycott Target" has just moved past Taylor Swift to the number one song on I-Tunes.

[seer]

Apparently a new rap song by Forgiato Blow (who calls himself the Mayor of MAGAville) called "Boycott Target" has just moved past Taylor Swift to the number one song on I-Tunes.

That wasn't half bad...

[rogue06]

That wasn't half bad...

I was a bit surprised by it.

[seer]

I was a bit surprised by it.

At least they are beating that pasty trollop on I tunes...

[tabibito]

At least they are beating that pasty trollop on I tunes...

uncalled for

[seer]

uncalled for

Says who?

[Ronson]

I can't take more than 10 seconds of any rap "song."