Bud Light: Nobody can chase off customers like us ... Target: Hold MY beer.

[seanD]

Really didn't think it was that obtuse but since the consensus seems to be that way, I suppose I owe a clearer statement.

Christians participating on this topic indulged themselves in two lies, that Target was 1) selling a specific shirt featuring Satan and 2) advertising transgender-accommodating swimwear to children. When the first lie was revealed as such, the Christians here didn't apologize for participating in the lie or even grapple with why or how they got so easily snookered. The subject was lightly commented on and then discarded and the second lie, still assumed to be true, was not reevaluated. The thread went "cold" for several days then, until you posted another bit of chum that could spur some outrage and criticism.

—I'll pause here to say that it's not at all impossible that some "trans radical" sent a bomb threat to "members@timcast.com". I will say that it's an awfully strange way to go about that sort of thing - do "trans radicals" normally send their violent messages to right-wing darling Tim Pool's subscription list?

Back to topic: For the Christians on this board, they can look to Christ as a model of both immense kindness to vulnerable sinners and implacable commitment to truth. Generally, one finds an individual's Christian practice emphasizing one over the other — we all fail to measure up to the model and tend to err in one direction or the other. If, then, Christian folk here decide to lean further into a commitment to "the TRUTH", their Christian faith will (and should) be judged on how they practice adherence to truth.

What we see, in this thread and historically, is a lack of such commitment. Quite the opposite, we see something more approaching an attitude of truth as a pragmatic tool: something to be used rhetorically when advantageous and discarded when not. That's a problem with a simple, though perhaps not easy, solution.

-Sam

Well, since I was one of the biggest outspoken ones about it you seem to be subtly referring to, I guess I have to respond.

Your comparison with our sin being forgiven by Christ and God's grace is a false equivalency. Are you calling LGBTQ and the culture surrounding it and all the nonsense attached to it sin? If you are, you're a very tiny minority on the left. The left at large doesn't call it sin nor are they seeking or asking for forgiveness and repentance; to the contrary, they celebrate it and even underscore it with "pride" (another biblical abomination). The fact it's being shoved down our throats from all cultural directions, including indoctrinating children, is what is being rightly attacked here. As far as the Satanic association, Target is apparently doing business with that designer, so it's all relative and spiritually par for the course.

[mossrose]

Really didn't think it was that obtuse but since the consensus seems to be that way, I suppose I owe a clearer statement.

Christians participating on this topic indulged themselves in two lies, that Target was 1) selling a specific shirt featuring Satan and 2) advertising transgender-accommodating swimwear to children. When the first lie was revealed as such, the Christians here didn't apologize for participating in the lie or even grapple with why or how they got so easily snookered. The subject was lightly commented on and then discarded and the second lie, still assumed to be true, was not reevaluated. The thread went "cold" for several days then, until you posted another bit of chum that could spur some outrage and criticism.

—I'll pause here to say that it's not at all impossible that some "trans radical" sent a bomb threat to "members@timcast.com". I will say that it's an awfully strange way to go about that sort of thing - do "trans radicals" normally send their violent messages to right-wing darling Tim Pool's subscription list?

Back to topic: For the Christians on this board, they can look to Christ as a model of both immense kindness to vulnerable sinners and implacable commitment to truth. Generally, one finds an individual's Christian practice emphasizing one over the other — we all fail to measure up to the model and tend to err in one direction or the other. If, then, Christian folk here decide to lean further into a commitment to "the TRUTH", their Christian faith will (and should) be judged on how they practice adherence to truth.

What we see, in this thread and historically, is a lack of such commitment. Quite the opposite, we see something more approaching an attitude of truth as a pragmatic tool: something to be used rhetorically when advantageous and discarded when not. That's a problem with a simple, though perhaps not easy, solution.

-Sam

Why do you speak about Christians as if you don't call yourself one?

[tabibito]

Not a whole lot has changed since I last checked in, I see.

I think it's notable that a number of Christian men here ran with two lies, both manufactured to gin up indignation and outrage against a vulnerable minority group. When one of the lies was exposed as such (and credit to Sparko for at least that), there were no apologies or mea culpas: just a short silence until the *next* outrage (a "trans radical" email sent to members of Tim Pool's website?) could be grabbed onto with both hands and no skepticism.

Reminds me of a recent conversation I had with an old college friend who posted Charlie Kirk's anti-trans talking points and a call for fathers to pull their daughter-athletes out of leagues that allowed transgender student participation. Going round and round through the question of whether her statement was showing lovingkindness to a particularly vulnerable set of kids wasn't any use because she kept coming back to the defense that "the TRUTH" is kindness and not telling people "the TRUTH" is cruelty.

Ah, well, an effort was made.

The very next day, the same person posts another Charlie Kirk bit - but this one contained an obvious and demonstrable lie. I pointed out the lie, along with providing an explanation of why it was a lie and supporting evidence showing how the statement was untrue. I suggested that her dedication to the truth was laudable but undercut by her reliance on Kirk, who regularly trafficks in falsehoods, half-truths, and flat-out lies. Her response: all media is biased in their own way but Charlie Kirk is "holding the line" against an immoral media and culture.

The post remained up.

What I'm getting at before I head back out the doors and into the wilds again is that Christians can legitimately either pin their priority to showing grace and kindness to struggling sinners or to demonstrating fealty to God's Truth, come what may. If you think transgender adults or kids are in that group of sinners, I guess you can pick the latter over the former and still present as a sincere, responsible Christian witness ... but you then tie your Christianity to how faithfully you adhere to true things, come what may.

And letting yourself being led around by the nose every time someone tickles your ear is a bad way to go about it, as demonstrated.

I'll see myself out again,

-Sam

Struggling sinners is one thing; people who declare their sins laudable and cause for pride, with anyone who disagrees being labelled evil, is another thing.

[Machinist]

Struggling sinners is one thing; people who declare their sins laudable and cause for pride, with anyone who disagrees being labelled evil, is another thing.

Amen, Amen and Amen!

[Bill the Cat]

I assume the above made sense to somebody here.

He lost me after "vulnerable minority groups".

[rogue06]

Struggling sinners is one thing; people who declare their sins laudable and cause for pride, with anyone who disagrees being labelled evil, is another thing.

PotD material

[Cow Poke]

Christians participating on this topic indulged themselves in two lies....

This kind of thing really isn't helpful, Sam. If you have a problem with a particular poster, you should address that poster or those posters.
This is kind of a cowardly "run in, throw a stink bomb, and run out" thing.

[Cow Poke]

Why do you speak about Christians as if you don't call yourself one?

I think the point was he's a for-really Christian and none of us are.
If I'm one of those who "believed a lie" and didn't apologize, I want to know where I was wrong so I can make it right.
You can't get that from stink bombs being thrown broadly.

[mossrose]

I think the point was he's a for-really Christian and none of us are.
If I'm one of those who "believed a lie" and didn't apologize, I want to know where I was wrong so I can make it right.
You can't get that from stink bombs being thrown broadly.

Yuh. We've seen that kind of behaviour around here before.

[seer]

He lost me after "vulnerable minority groups".

[Sparko]

They say that they don't actually believe in a being like Satan, yet he or it, is respecting their pronouns...

So if Satan doesn't exist, then he is nobody, so their T-shirt actually reads "Nobody respects Pronouns" --oops.

[Sam]

This kind of thing really isn't helpful, Sam. If you have a problem with a particular poster, you should address that poster or those posters.
This is kind of a cowardly "run in, throw a stink bomb, and run out" thing.

I think the point was he's a for-really Christian and none of us are.
If I'm one of those who "believed a lie" and didn't apologize, I want to know where I was wrong so I can make it right.
You can't get that from stink bombs being thrown broadly.

You misunderstand the nature of my comment, though less than others and so I'll respond. The facts are what they are -- you and a number of other Christians here treated lies as truth in service of attacking others. When they were exposed as lies (something you should have examined prior to jumping on the wagon), being caught up in a lie didn't elicit any sort of apology or introspection. Me stating as much is a "stink bomb" only in the sense that people here have gotten themselves so blindly used to that foul habit that someone throwing a window open every now and exposing the miasma to light is revelatory. I'm happy enough to perform that function once every great while but I'm hardly expected to stick around and argue about who made the stink. The facts are what they are, plainly visible to all.

You and any other Christian here can look back on the thread and ask "Did I join an attack on others based on a falsehood?" If so, you don't need me to walk you through how to make that right: apologize and quit doing it in the future. Given how that kind of reactionary chattering is the essence of TWeb's Civics forum, that'll probably mean reducing your footprint here. You may even be compelled to start making amends by pointing out to others still engaging in the pragmatic use of truth that they're doing something wrong and damaging their public-facing ministry in the process. If you go that route, you'll end up in a bunch of useless arguments with people who really don't want to be told that they should stop giving themselves up to lies so readily. Once you've established that, there's nothing cowardly or inappropriate with "shaking off the dust" and taking leave of a community who practice neither Christ's radical lovingkindness nor His unwavering commitment to truth.

And if a careful read-through of this thread doesn't speak to you like that, there's hardly any point in arguing about it anyway, is there?

-Sam

[seer]

So if Satan doesn't exist, then he is nobody, so their T-shirt actually reads "Nobody respects Pronouns" --oops.

Or, they really do believe he exists and are willing pawns...

[Sparko]

2) advertising transgender-accommodating swimwear to children.

I don't recall anyone talking about trans -accommodating swimwear for children. I think you are mixing two things up.

The "tuck-friendly" female swimwear was marketing to adult males who identify as transgender but still have their junk.

The children's thing was Target selling LGBT Pride clothing for children and toddlers.

https://www.target.com/c/toddler-clo.../N-23cj2Zt4bgn

[Cow Poke]

You misunderstand the nature of my comment, though less than others and so I'll respond. The facts are what they are -- you and a number of other Christians here treated lies as truth in service of attacking others.

Would you mind giving me an example of where I did that?