Originally posted by CivilDiscourse
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Liberal Students More Depressed Than Conservative...
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
At least you have the capacity to recognize that the over-reactions are on both sides. That said, since it is on both sides, it is not likely to be that cause of any disparity in the rate of depression, if one exists.
I could posit a somewhat counterintuitive analysis that actually incorporates many of the ideas being advanced in isolation.
1) Consider that a tendency toward liberalism actually is a product of learning, of knowing more about the world and realizing there is more to every story that the typical simplified dichotomies that dominate current conservative thought. ( note that has not always been the case - here I think of great conservative thinkers like George Will )
2) Consider that faith in God or Christ also tends to be diminished by learning, education (not a requirement, just a recognition of the reality That the more educated people are, the less likely they are to profess faith in Christ)
3) Consider that faith in God and Christ gives hope, can bring a person more joy in times of trial than without it.
One consequence of these three postulates is that more educated individuals will have a more accurate view of the word, less educated individuals a less accurate view of the world.
But that will also tend to mean more educated part of the population, the more liberal part by (1), will also have a more accurate awareness of both the problems we face and their seriousness.
But it will also mean, since the more educated and more liberal by (2) have less access to a capacity faith gives to face these problems with hope and optimism. - hence they might be less optimistic about life in general, more prone to depression over those same issues they are more aware of than the conservattive population.
OTOH, the less educated, more conservative part of the population has not only a less accurate view of the real problems we face ( especially since their leaders tend to either lie about them or just simply be equally ignorant about them ), but they also, because of their greater preponderance of faith and hope, are better able to deal with the problems they do recognize in positive, productive ways.
Now ideally we could combine the three (education/knowledge/faith) and make the most happy people of all, and the most effective people in terms of producing real solutions to those same real problems. But each side contains internal failure that sabotage one or the other, leading both to our current conflict and polarization, as well as effective walls to ever working together to find and implement real solutions.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
At least you have the capacity to recognize that the over-reactions are on both sides. That said, since it is on both sides, it is not likely to be that cause of any disparity in the rate of depression, if one exists.
I could posit a somewhat counterintuitive analysis that actually incorporates many of the ideas being advanced in isolation.
1) Consider that a tendency toward liberalism actually is a product of learning, of knowing more about the world and realizing there is more to every story that the typical simplified dichotomies that dominate current conservative thought. ( note that has not always been the case - here I think of great conservative thinkers like George Will )
2) Consider that faith in God or Christ also tends to be diminished by learning, education (not a requirement, just a recognition of the reality That the more educated people are, the less likely they are to profess faith in Christ)
3) Consider that faith in God and Christ gives hope, can bring a person more joy in times of trial than without it.
One consequence of these three postulates is that more educated individuals will have a more accurate view of the word, less educated individuals a less accurate view of the world.
But that will also tend to mean more educated part of the population, the more liberal part by (1), will also have a more accurate awareness of both the problems we face and their seriousness.
But it will also mean, since the more educated and more liberal by (2) have less access to a capacity faith gives to face these problems with hope and optimism. - hence they might be less optimistic about life in general, more prone to depression over those same issues they are more aware of than the conservattive population.
OTOH, the less educated, more conservative part of the population has not only a less accurate view of the real problems we face ( especially since their leaders tend to either lie about them or just simply be equally ignorant about them ), but they also, because of their greater preponderance of faith and hope, are better able to deal with the problems they do recognize in positive, productive ways.
Now ideally we could combine the three (education/knowledge/faith) and make the most happy people of all, and the most effective people in terms of producing real solutions to those same real problems. But each side contains internal failure that sabotage one or the other, leading both to our current conflict and polarization, as well as effective walls to ever working together to find and implement real solutions.
And while I recognize that both sides overreact, what's being over-reacted on is entirely different.
To beg ALOT of stereotypes here, and over simplify: (In other words take this as a very broad grain of salt).
Conservatives are invested in the "status quo." Things are "largely fine" with rough edges that need to be sanded down.
Liberals are invested in grand re-structures in the need to fix all of life's problems through change. They also tend to make it "personal."
This means that conservatives are going to over-react, but they don't see things as personal victimized failures that spell doom and gloom.
On the other hand, because liberals have over-reacted, and they view it from that personal angle, it tends to make them feel as if the world is falling apart around them.
To use a poor analogy here (and some cartoonish logic to drive my point home).
You buy a wooden table, it was damaged in shipping, and there's a large splintered part on one of the sides. For some reason it can't be sent back.- The conservative approach is to look at that, rip off the splinter, sand it, and slap a bit of varnish on it. It's a perfectly good table. They are annoyed at the process, and the shipping company, but they have a good table. Well, that's all they need to do. They may not actually do it. They'll rip their clothes on it, get small splinters from it, but since they know the solution isn't that bad, it's still a good table.
- The liberal approach is to look at the splintered table, and think that the table has a dangerous splinter on it. It's not what they wanted. Now the varnish is horribly broken, and they were ripped off by the carrier and the seller. Our kids will never be able to enjoy the table because of the splinter, and because it can't be returned, it'll forever be a stain on the family. They sue over the table, and they may get a settlement, but now because of the suit, it's not enough to buy a new table, so they bemoan that they are STILL stuck with this broken table. They tell their friends to boycott the shipping company, but since they are contracted by sellers, not buyers the boycott is ineffective. They try to educate others on the dangers of poor shipping, they are acutely aware of the dangers of "Big Shipping" and how dramatically it affects EVERYONE. Their inability to get what they feel is rightful recompensed over the table drives them to anguish. Big Shipping is going to win, they don't care about the little people, and we are all going to be stuck with tables that have dangerous splinters. Depression sets in.
Last edited by CivilDiscourse; 05-15-2023, 02:46 PM.
- 1 like
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
You beg alot of questions here. I've already shown you one clear example of liberals not having a more "accute" or "accurate" picture of the world than conservatives.
And while I recognize that both sides overreact, what's being over-reacted on is entirely different.
To beg ALOT of stereotypes here, and over simplify: (In other words take this as a very broad grain of salt).
Conservatives are invested in the "status quo." Things are "largely fine" with rough edges that need to be sanded down.
Liberals are invested in grand re-structures in the need to fix all of life's problems through change. They also tend to make it "personal."
This means that conservatives are going to over-react, but they don't see things as personal victimized failures that spell doom and gloom.
On the other hand, because liberals have over-reacted, and they view it from that personal angle, it tends to make them feel as if the world is falling apart around them.
To use a poor analogy here (and some cartoonish logic to drive my point home).
You buy a wooden table, it was damaged in shipping, and there's a large splintered part on one of the sides. For some reason it can't be sent back.
The conservative approach is to look at that, rip off the splinter, sand it, and slap a bit of varnish on it. It's a perfectly good table. They are annoyed at the process, and the shipping company, but they have a good table.
The liberal approach is to look at the splintered table, and think that the table has a dangerous splinter on it. It's not what they wanted. Now the varnish is horribly broken, and they were ripped off by the carrier and the seller. Our kids will never be able to enjoy the table because of the splinter, and because it can't be returned, it'll forever be a stain on the family. They sue over the table, and they may get a settlement, but now because of the suit, it's not enough to buy a new table, so they bemoan that they are STILL stuck with this broken table. They tell their friends to boycott the shipping company, but since they are contracted by sellers, not buyers the boycott is ineffective. They try to educate others on the dangers of poor shipping, they are acutely aware of the dangers of "Big Shipping" and how dramatically it affects EVERYONE. Their inability to get what they feel is rightful recompensed over the table drives them to anguish. Big Shipping is going to win, they don't care about the little people, and we are all going to be stuck with tables that have dangerous splinters. Depression sets in.
- 1 like
Comment
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
At least you have the capacity to recognize that the over-reactions are on both sides. That said, since it is on both sides, it is not likely to be that cause of any disparity in the rate of depression, if one exists.
I could posit a somewhat counterintuitive analysis that actually incorporates many of the ideas being advanced in isolation.
1) Consider that a tendency toward liberalism actually is a product of learning, of knowing more about the world and realizing there is more to every story that the typical simplified dichotomies that dominate current conservative thought. ( note that has not always been the case - here I think of great conservative thinkers like George Will )
2) Consider that faith in God or Christ also tends to be diminished by learning, education (not a requirement, just a recognition of the reality That the more educated people are, the less likely they are to profess faith in Christ)
3) Consider that faith in God and Christ gives hope, can bring a person more joy in times of trial than without it.
One consequence of these three postulates is that more educated individuals will have a more accurate view of the word, less educated individuals a less accurate view of the world.
But that will also tend to mean more educated part of the population, the more liberal part by (1), will also have a more accurate awareness of both the problems we face and their seriousness.
But it will also mean, since the more educated and more liberal by (2) have less access to a capacity faith gives to face these problems with hope and optimism. - hence they might be less optimistic about life in general, more prone to depression over those same issues they are more aware of than the conservattive population.
OTOH, the less educated, more conservative part of the population has not only a less accurate view of the real problems we face ( especially since their leaders tend to either lie about them or just simply be equally ignorant about them ), but they also, because of their greater preponderance of faith and hope, are better able to deal with the problems they do recognize in positive, productive ways.
Now ideally we could combine the three (education/knowledge/faith) and make the most happy people of all, and the most effective people in terms of producing real solutions to those same real problems. But each side contains internal failure that sabotage one or the other, leading both to our current conflict and polarization, as well as effective walls to ever working together to find and implement real solutions.
But isn't it wonderful how you desperately cling to that old disproved trope that liberals and atheists are better educated and more knowledgeable than conservatives and Christians.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
One of the reasons liberal talk radio has been an abject failure, because nobody actually wants to listen to that pessimistic crap. The thing that made Rush Limbaugh such a success is that his show was always fun and optimistic.
Yeah, conservatives often drag their feet when they should be planning ahead, but procrastination doesn't make one depressed.
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
You beg alot of questions here. I've already shown you one clear example of liberals not having a more "accute" or "accurate" picture of the world than conservatives.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
He's the poster child for depressed liberals. He was a much nicer and happier guy back before he developed TDS and became a liberal.
My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
...
But isn't it wonderful how you desperately cling to that old disproved trope that liberals and atheists are better educated and more knowledgeable than conservatives and Christians.
As for what is real. This is what is real: the GOP and its base is out there still believing in a man that promoted lies about the last election to the point it resulted in an insurrection, and who is still out there peddling the same lies. People that fight tooth and nail any attempt to curb the plague of mass shooting after mass shooting, People that elect and support and stand behind people like Marjorie Taylor Greene who once tracked down the survivors of such a shooting and accused them of being false flag actors. The GOP is the party of anti-AGW pseudo-science, the party that will track down and prosecute young girls trying to avoid a pregnancy caused by rape or incest, the party that will even protect and support overt racists, liars, even pedophiles in their quest to defeat 'liberalism' (i.e. preserve their hold on power). You yourself are the poster child for that same sort of blind faith in a narcissistic liar against all logic and reason. A person that has believed nearly every bit of nearly every conspiracy theory about Covid-19, AGW, Trump, who knows what else. Right now conservatives ARE the voice of superstition, anti-intellectualism, pseudo-science, hatred, and greed. That doesn't mean Liberals are the good guys - far from it. But the political conservatives in following the MAGA base have left any sense of morality or integrity (intellectual or otherwise) in the dust in the raw search for power and wealth,
My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
- 1 like
Comment
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
You beg alot of questions here. I've already shown you one clear example of liberals not having a more "accute" or "accurate" picture of the world than conservatives.
And while I recognize that both sides overreact, what's being over-reacted on is entirely different.
To beg ALOT of stereotypes here, and over simplify: (In other words take this as a very broad grain of salt).
Conservatives are invested in the "status quo." Things are "largely fine" with rough edges that need to be sanded down.
Liberals are invested in grand re-structures in the need to fix all of life's problems through change. They also tend to make it "personal."
This means that conservatives are going to over-react, but they don't see things as personal victimized failures that spell doom and gloom.
On the other hand, because liberals have over-reacted, and they view it from that personal angle, it tends to make them feel as if the world is falling apart around them.
To use a poor analogy here (and some cartoonish logic to drive my point home).
You buy a wooden table, it was damaged in shipping, and there's a large splintered part on one of the sides. For some reason it can't be sent back.- The conservative approach is to look at that, rip off the splinter, sand it, and slap a bit of varnish on it. It's a perfectly good table. They are annoyed at the process, and the shipping company, but they have a good table. Well, that's all they need to do. They may not actually do it. They'll rip their clothes on it, get small splinters from it, but since they know the solution isn't that bad, it's still a good table.
- The liberal approach is to look at the splintered table, and think that the table has a dangerous splinter on it. It's not what they wanted. Now the varnish is horribly broken, and they were ripped off by the carrier and the seller. Our kids will never be able to enjoy the table because of the splinter, and because it can't be returned, it'll forever be a stain on the family. They sue over the table, and they may get a settlement, but now because of the suit, it's not enough to buy a new table, so they bemoan that they are STILL stuck with this broken table. They tell their friends to boycott the shipping company, but since they are contracted by sellers, not buyers the boycott is ineffective. They try to educate others on the dangers of poor shipping, they are acutely aware of the dangers of "Big Shipping" and how dramatically it affects EVERYONE. Their inability to get what they feel is rightful recompensed over the table drives them to anguish. Big Shipping is going to win, they don't care about the little people, and we are all going to be stuck with tables that have dangerous splinters. Depression sets in.
My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
Now you are not only calling conservatives stupid, but also Christians. Great job, ox.
These people were well meaning, but ignorant. And the consequence of that ignorance was tragic.Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-16-2023, 12:13 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
The correlation between education and the abandonment of faith is simple reality Sparko. It has nothing to do with 'name-calling'. However, and unfortunately, responding to stating that reality with the accusation it is name-calling is nothing but an ad-hominem attack designed to distract from what is an inconvenient reality: that there is a negative correlation between education and faith. The more people learn, the more they come face to face with the ignorance that drives many religious positions. A very, very simple example is the attempt at the conservative Church I once attended to indoctrinate its youth with Young Earth Creationism. I can not tell you how many of them who pursued degrees in the sciences that lost their faith based on the fact that the Church itself drilled into their heads the idea that if the Earth was more than 10,000 years old, the Bible itself was no longer to be trusted, and Christian faith was not true.
These people were well meaning, but ignorant. And the consequence of that ignorance was tragic.Last edited by tabibito; 05-16-2023, 01:05 AM.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
While this is an excellent window into the distortions in perception that drive you to your current positions, of the rhetoric that is propagated by conservative media sources, it is not by any means a good description of reality.
my posting here is definitely a reflection of how you post about conservatives.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostFirst - the issue is not atheism, it is education. And what you call 'disproved' is a simple denial of reality. But then again, that is mostly what you do in nearly every conversation here, so why should this converstaion be any different?
As for what is real. This is what is real: the GOP and its base is out there still believing in a man that promoted lies about the last election to the point it resulted in an insurrection, and who is still out there peddling the same lies. People that fight tooth and nail any attempt to curb the plague of mass shooting after mass shooting, People that elect and support and stand behind people like Marjorie Taylor Greene who once tracked down the survivors of such a shooting and accused them of being false flag actors. The GOP is the party of anti-AGW pseudo-science, the party that will track down and prosecute young girls trying to avoid a pregnancy caused by rape or incest, the party that will even protect and support overt racists, liars, even pedophiles in their quest to defeat 'liberalism' (i.e. preserve their hold on power). You yourself are the poster child for that same sort of blind faith in a narcissistic liar against all logic and reason. A person that has believed nearly every bit of nearly every conspiracy theory about Covid-19, AGW, Trump, who knows what else. Right now conservatives ARE the voice of superstition, anti-intellectualism, pseudo-science, hatred, and greed. That doesn't mean Liberals are the good guys - far from it. But the political conservatives in following the MAGA base have left any sense of morality or integrity (intellectual or otherwise) in the dust in the raw search for power and wealth,Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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