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Liberal Students More Depressed Than Conservative...

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  • #31
    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

    As we are talking about what is causing depression in liberals, your sidetrack on "gaslighting" really isn't relevant.

    A trend towards "overreaction" (understatement if I ever saw one) on severity is much more likely to cause depression than not overreacting.

    We go to war (culture war) on the absolute minimalist things. Take Trans/pronouns. It's the dumbest thing. Conservatives overreact like nobody's business on this, and at the same time, liberals are essentially trying to push full blown language/culture changes to accommodate a group that makes up such a very tiny fraction of the US population.
    So you think conservatives are overreacting to liberals essentially "trying to push full blown language/culture changes to accommodate a group that makes up such a very tiny fraction of the US population"? You think opposition to that is overreaction?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

      At least you have the capacity to recognize that the over-reactions are on both sides. That said, since it is on both sides, it is not likely to be that cause of any disparity in the rate of depression, if one exists.

      I could posit a somewhat counterintuitive analysis that actually incorporates many of the ideas being advanced in isolation.

      1) Consider that a tendency toward liberalism actually is a product of learning, of knowing more about the world and realizing there is more to every story that the typical simplified dichotomies that dominate current conservative thought. ( note that has not always been the case - here I think of great conservative thinkers like George Will )

      2) Consider that faith in God or Christ also tends to be diminished by learning, education (not a requirement, just a recognition of the reality That the more educated people are, the less likely they are to profess faith in Christ)

      3) Consider that faith in God and Christ gives hope, can bring a person more joy in times of trial than without it.

      One consequence of these three postulates is that more educated individuals will have a more accurate view of the word, less educated individuals a less accurate view of the world.

      But that will also tend to mean more educated part of the population, the more liberal part by (1), will also have a more accurate awareness of both the problems we face and their seriousness.

      But it will also mean, since the more educated and more liberal by (2) have less access to a capacity faith gives to face these problems with hope and optimism. - hence they might be less optimistic about life in general, more prone to depression over those same issues they are more aware of than the conservattive population.

      OTOH, the less educated, more conservative part of the population has not only a less accurate view of the real problems we face ( especially since their leaders tend to either lie about them or just simply be equally ignorant about them ), but they also, because of their greater preponderance of faith and hope, are better able to deal with the problems they do recognize in positive, productive ways.


      Now ideally we could combine the three (education/knowledge/faith) and make the most happy people of all, and the most effective people in terms of producing real solutions to those same real problems. But each side contains internal failure that sabotage one or the other, leading both to our current conflict and polarization, as well as effective walls to ever working together to find and implement real solutions.
      Now you are not only calling conservatives stupid, but also Christians. Great job, ox.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

        At least you have the capacity to recognize that the over-reactions are on both sides. That said, since it is on both sides, it is not likely to be that cause of any disparity in the rate of depression, if one exists.

        I could posit a somewhat counterintuitive analysis that actually incorporates many of the ideas being advanced in isolation.

        1) Consider that a tendency toward liberalism actually is a product of learning, of knowing more about the world and realizing there is more to every story that the typical simplified dichotomies that dominate current conservative thought. ( note that has not always been the case - here I think of great conservative thinkers like George Will )

        2) Consider that faith in God or Christ also tends to be diminished by learning, education (not a requirement, just a recognition of the reality That the more educated people are, the less likely they are to profess faith in Christ)

        3) Consider that faith in God and Christ gives hope, can bring a person more joy in times of trial than without it.

        One consequence of these three postulates is that more educated individuals will have a more accurate view of the word, less educated individuals a less accurate view of the world.

        But that will also tend to mean more educated part of the population, the more liberal part by (1), will also have a more accurate awareness of both the problems we face and their seriousness.

        But it will also mean, since the more educated and more liberal by (2) have less access to a capacity faith gives to face these problems with hope and optimism. - hence they might be less optimistic about life in general, more prone to depression over those same issues they are more aware of than the conservattive population.

        OTOH, the less educated, more conservative part of the population has not only a less accurate view of the real problems we face ( especially since their leaders tend to either lie about them or just simply be equally ignorant about them ), but they also, because of their greater preponderance of faith and hope, are better able to deal with the problems they do recognize in positive, productive ways.


        Now ideally we could combine the three (education/knowledge/faith) and make the most happy people of all, and the most effective people in terms of producing real solutions to those same real problems. But each side contains internal failure that sabotage one or the other, leading both to our current conflict and polarization, as well as effective walls to ever working together to find and implement real solutions.
        You beg alot of questions here. I've already shown you one clear example of liberals not having a more "accute" or "accurate" picture of the world than conservatives.

        And while I recognize that both sides overreact, what's being over-reacted on is entirely different.

        To beg ALOT of stereotypes here, and over simplify: (In other words take this as a very broad grain of salt).

        Conservatives are invested in the "status quo." Things are "largely fine" with rough edges that need to be sanded down.
        Liberals are invested in grand re-structures in the need to fix all of life's problems through change. They also tend to make it "personal."


        This means that conservatives are going to over-react, but they don't see things as personal victimized failures that spell doom and gloom.
        On the other hand, because liberals have over-reacted, and they view it from that personal angle, it tends to make them feel as if the world is falling apart around them.

        To use a poor analogy here (and some cartoonish logic to drive my point home).

        You buy a wooden table, it was damaged in shipping, and there's a large splintered part on one of the sides. For some reason it can't be sent back.
        • The conservative approach is to look at that, rip off the splinter, sand it, and slap a bit of varnish on it. It's a perfectly good table. They are annoyed at the process, and the shipping company, but they have a good table. Well, that's all they need to do. They may not actually do it. They'll rip their clothes on it, get small splinters from it, but since they know the solution isn't that bad, it's still a good table.
        • The liberal approach is to look at the splintered table, and think that the table has a dangerous splinter on it. It's not what they wanted. Now the varnish is horribly broken, and they were ripped off by the carrier and the seller. Our kids will never be able to enjoy the table because of the splinter, and because it can't be returned, it'll forever be a stain on the family. They sue over the table, and they may get a settlement, but now because of the suit, it's not enough to buy a new table, so they bemoan that they are STILL stuck with this broken table. They tell their friends to boycott the shipping company, but since they are contracted by sellers, not buyers the boycott is ineffective. They try to educate others on the dangers of poor shipping, they are acutely aware of the dangers of "Big Shipping" and how dramatically it affects EVERYONE. Their inability to get what they feel is rightful recompensed over the table drives them to anguish. Big Shipping is going to win, they don't care about the little people, and we are all going to be stuck with tables that have dangerous splinters. Depression sets in.
        Last edited by CivilDiscourse; 05-15-2023, 02:46 PM.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

          You beg alot of questions here. I've already shown you one clear example of liberals not having a more "accute" or "accurate" picture of the world than conservatives.

          And while I recognize that both sides overreact, what's being over-reacted on is entirely different.

          To beg ALOT of stereotypes here, and over simplify: (In other words take this as a very broad grain of salt).

          Conservatives are invested in the "status quo." Things are "largely fine" with rough edges that need to be sanded down.
          Liberals are invested in grand re-structures in the need to fix all of life's problems through change. They also tend to make it "personal."


          This means that conservatives are going to over-react, but they don't see things as personal victimized failures that spell doom and gloom.
          On the other hand, because liberals have over-reacted, and they view it from that personal angle, it tends to make them feel as if the world is falling apart around them.

          To use a poor analogy here (and some cartoonish logic to drive my point home).

          You buy a wooden table, it was damaged in shipping, and there's a large splintered part on one of the sides. For some reason it can't be sent back.
          The conservative approach is to look at that, rip off the splinter, sand it, and slap a bit of varnish on it. It's a perfectly good table. They are annoyed at the process, and the shipping company, but they have a good table.
          The liberal approach is to look at the splintered table, and think that the table has a dangerous splinter on it. It's not what they wanted. Now the varnish is horribly broken, and they were ripped off by the carrier and the seller. Our kids will never be able to enjoy the table because of the splinter, and because it can't be returned, it'll forever be a stain on the family. They sue over the table, and they may get a settlement, but now because of the suit, it's not enough to buy a new table, so they bemoan that they are STILL stuck with this broken table. They tell their friends to boycott the shipping company, but since they are contracted by sellers, not buyers the boycott is ineffective. They try to educate others on the dangers of poor shipping, they are acutely aware of the dangers of "Big Shipping" and how dramatically it affects EVERYONE. Their inability to get what they feel is rightful recompensed over the table drives them to anguish. Big Shipping is going to win, they don't care about the little people, and we are all going to be stuck with tables that have dangerous splinters. Depression sets in.
          Obviously wooden tables are bad for the home and environment. We need to tax wooden tables out of existence and force people to buy newly invented NuWood synthetic tables that cost 10 times as much and are just now being developed by one company in California who is entirely dependent on China for their proprietary ingredient.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

            At least you have the capacity to recognize that the over-reactions are on both sides. That said, since it is on both sides, it is not likely to be that cause of any disparity in the rate of depression, if one exists.

            I could posit a somewhat counterintuitive analysis that actually incorporates many of the ideas being advanced in isolation.

            1) Consider that a tendency toward liberalism actually is a product of learning, of knowing more about the world and realizing there is more to every story that the typical simplified dichotomies that dominate current conservative thought. ( note that has not always been the case - here I think of great conservative thinkers like George Will )

            2) Consider that faith in God or Christ also tends to be diminished by learning, education (not a requirement, just a recognition of the reality That the more educated people are, the less likely they are to profess faith in Christ)

            3) Consider that faith in God and Christ gives hope, can bring a person more joy in times of trial than without it.

            One consequence of these three postulates is that more educated individuals will have a more accurate view of the word, less educated individuals a less accurate view of the world.

            But that will also tend to mean more educated part of the population, the more liberal part by (1), will also have a more accurate awareness of both the problems we face and their seriousness.

            But it will also mean, since the more educated and more liberal by (2) have less access to a capacity faith gives to face these problems with hope and optimism. - hence they might be less optimistic about life in general, more prone to depression over those same issues they are more aware of than the conservattive population.

            OTOH, the less educated, more conservative part of the population has not only a less accurate view of the real problems we face ( especially since their leaders tend to either lie about them or just simply be equally ignorant about them ), but they also, because of their greater preponderance of faith and hope, are better able to deal with the problems they do recognize in positive, productive ways.


            Now ideally we could combine the three (education/knowledge/faith) and make the most happy people of all, and the most effective people in terms of producing real solutions to those same real problems. But each side contains internal failure that sabotage one or the other, leading both to our current conflict and polarization, as well as effective walls to ever working together to find and implement real solutions.
            I'm reminded of the quote, "If you're not a liberal when you're younger, then you have no heart. If you're not a conservative when you're older, then you have no brain."

            But isn't it wonderful how you desperately cling to that old disproved trope that liberals and atheists are better educated and more knowledgeable than conservatives and Christians.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

              One of the reasons liberal talk radio has been an abject failure, because nobody actually wants to listen to that pessimistic crap. The thing that made Rush Limbaugh such a success is that his show was always fun and optimistic.
              Liberals are more likely to be in constant crisis mode. Whether it is the climate, ozone, DDT, covid, acid rain, or Russia, everything is an emergency and dire. Of course they are depressed. Who wouldn't be who believed all of that?

              Yeah, conservatives often drag their feet when they should be planning ahead, but procrastination doesn't make one depressed.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                Yeah, conservatives often drag their feet when they should be planning ahead, but procrastination doesn't make one depressed.
                I will be depressed tomorrow.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                  You beg alot of questions here. I've already shown you one clear example of liberals not having a more "accute" or "accurate" picture of the world than conservatives.
                  I remember back in the day all my liberal friends believe that George Bush brought the towers down. They even rented a local theater to further their theory. It was sold out...
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    He's the poster child for depressed liberals. He was a much nicer and happier guy back before he developed TDS and became a liberal.
                    Whatever depression you see is projection. Perhaps take a long look in a mirror and see what you've become?
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                      ...

                      But isn't it wonderful how you desperately cling to that old disproved trope that liberals and atheists are better educated and more knowledgeable than conservatives and Christians.
                      First - the issue is not atheism, it is education. And what you call 'disproved' is a simple denial of reality. But then again, that is mostly what you do in nearly every conversation here, so why should this converstaion be any different?

                      As for what is real. This is what is real: the GOP and its base is out there still believing in a man that promoted lies about the last election to the point it resulted in an insurrection, and who is still out there peddling the same lies. People that fight tooth and nail any attempt to curb the plague of mass shooting after mass shooting, People that elect and support and stand behind people like Marjorie Taylor Greene who once tracked down the survivors of such a shooting and accused them of being false flag actors. The GOP is the party of anti-AGW pseudo-science, the party that will track down and prosecute young girls trying to avoid a pregnancy caused by rape or incest, the party that will even protect and support overt racists, liars, even pedophiles in their quest to defeat 'liberalism' (i.e. preserve their hold on power). You yourself are the poster child for that same sort of blind faith in a narcissistic liar against all logic and reason. A person that has believed nearly every bit of nearly every conspiracy theory about Covid-19, AGW, Trump, who knows what else. Right now conservatives ARE the voice of superstition, anti-intellectualism, pseudo-science, hatred, and greed. That doesn't mean Liberals are the good guys - far from it. But the political conservatives in following the MAGA base have left any sense of morality or integrity (intellectual or otherwise) in the dust in the raw search for power and wealth,

                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                        You beg alot of questions here. I've already shown you one clear example of liberals not having a more "accute" or "accurate" picture of the world than conservatives.

                        And while I recognize that both sides overreact, what's being over-reacted on is entirely different.

                        To beg ALOT of stereotypes here, and over simplify: (In other words take this as a very broad grain of salt).

                        Conservatives are invested in the "status quo." Things are "largely fine" with rough edges that need to be sanded down.
                        Liberals are invested in grand re-structures in the need to fix all of life's problems through change. They also tend to make it "personal."


                        This means that conservatives are going to over-react, but they don't see things as personal victimized failures that spell doom and gloom.
                        On the other hand, because liberals have over-reacted, and they view it from that personal angle, it tends to make them feel as if the world is falling apart around them.

                        To use a poor analogy here (and some cartoonish logic to drive my point home).

                        You buy a wooden table, it was damaged in shipping, and there's a large splintered part on one of the sides. For some reason it can't be sent back.
                        • The conservative approach is to look at that, rip off the splinter, sand it, and slap a bit of varnish on it. It's a perfectly good table. They are annoyed at the process, and the shipping company, but they have a good table. Well, that's all they need to do. They may not actually do it. They'll rip their clothes on it, get small splinters from it, but since they know the solution isn't that bad, it's still a good table.
                        • The liberal approach is to look at the splintered table, and think that the table has a dangerous splinter on it. It's not what they wanted. Now the varnish is horribly broken, and they were ripped off by the carrier and the seller. Our kids will never be able to enjoy the table because of the splinter, and because it can't be returned, it'll forever be a stain on the family. They sue over the table, and they may get a settlement, but now because of the suit, it's not enough to buy a new table, so they bemoan that they are STILL stuck with this broken table. They tell their friends to boycott the shipping company, but since they are contracted by sellers, not buyers the boycott is ineffective. They try to educate others on the dangers of poor shipping, they are acutely aware of the dangers of "Big Shipping" and how dramatically it affects EVERYONE. Their inability to get what they feel is rightful recompensed over the table drives them to anguish. Big Shipping is going to win, they don't care about the little people, and we are all going to be stuck with tables that have dangerous splinters. Depression sets in.
                        While this is an excellent window into the distortions in perception that drive you to your current positions, of the rhetoric that is propagated by conservative media sources, it is not by any means a good description of reality.


                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                          Now you are not only calling conservatives stupid, but also Christians. Great job, ox.
                          The correlation between education and the abandonment of faith is simple reality Sparko. It has nothing to do with 'name-calling'. However, and unfortunately, responding to stating that reality with the accusation it is name-calling is nothing but an ad-hominem attack designed to distract from what is an inconvenient reality: that there is a negative correlation between education and faith. The more people learn, the more they come face to face with the ignorance that drives many religious positions. A very, very simple example is the attempt at the conservative Church I once attended to indoctrinate its youth with Young Earth Creationism. I can not tell you how many of them who pursued degrees in the sciences that lost their faith based on the fact that the Church itself drilled into their heads the idea that if the Earth was more than 10,000 years old, the Bible itself was no longer to be trusted, and Christian faith was not true.

                          These people were well meaning, but ignorant. And the consequence of that ignorance was tragic.
                          Last edited by oxmixmudd; 05-16-2023, 12:13 AM.
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                            The correlation between education and the abandonment of faith is simple reality Sparko. It has nothing to do with 'name-calling'. However, and unfortunately, responding to stating that reality with the accusation it is name-calling is nothing but an ad-hominem attack designed to distract from what is an inconvenient reality: that there is a negative correlation between education and faith. The more people learn, the more they come face to face with the ignorance that drives many religious positions. A very, very simple example is the attempt at the conservative Church I once attended to indoctrinate its youth with Young Earth Creationism. I can not tell you how many of them who pursued degrees in the sciences that lost their faith based on the fact that the Church itself drilled into their heads the idea that if the Earth was more than 10,000 years old, the Bible itself was no longer to be trusted, and Christian faith was not true.

                            These people were well meaning, but ignorant. And the consequence of that ignorance was tragic.
                            Churches' inaccurate teachings (e.g. much of the material found in Got Answers) are responsible for a large number of tertiary educated people losing their belief ... either in the churches or in God. I won't raise any contrary argument whatever. Accurate teachings by churches would result in a very different outcome.
                            Last edited by tabibito; 05-16-2023, 01:05 AM.
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                              While this is an excellent window into the distortions in perception that drive you to your current positions, of the rhetoric that is propagated by conservative media sources, it is not by any means a good description of reality.

                              Neither are the distortions you come up with. You've spopouted off nonsense every tie you talk. I think you might be getting why we don't take you seriously.

                              my posting here is definitely a reflection of how you post about conservatives.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                First - the issue is not atheism, it is education. And what you call 'disproved' is a simple denial of reality. But then again, that is mostly what you do in nearly every conversation here, so why should this converstaion be any different?

                                As for what is real. This is what is real: the GOP and its base is out there still believing in a man that promoted lies about the last election to the point it resulted in an insurrection, and who is still out there peddling the same lies. People that fight tooth and nail any attempt to curb the plague of mass shooting after mass shooting, People that elect and support and stand behind people like Marjorie Taylor Greene who once tracked down the survivors of such a shooting and accused them of being false flag actors. The GOP is the party of anti-AGW pseudo-science, the party that will track down and prosecute young girls trying to avoid a pregnancy caused by rape or incest, the party that will even protect and support overt racists, liars, even pedophiles in their quest to defeat 'liberalism' (i.e. preserve their hold on power). You yourself are the poster child for that same sort of blind faith in a narcissistic liar against all logic and reason. A person that has believed nearly every bit of nearly every conspiracy theory about Covid-19, AGW, Trump, who knows what else. Right now conservatives ARE the voice of superstition, anti-intellectualism, pseudo-science, hatred, and greed. That doesn't mean Liberals are the good guys - far from it. But the political conservatives in following the MAGA base have left any sense of morality or integrity (intellectual or otherwise) in the dust in the raw search for power and wealth,
                                Again, just more baseless attempts to smear conservatives rather than confront the fact that liberals are disproportionately more likely to suffer from depression and other mental illnesses.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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