When does Renaissance sculpture become "pornography"? Discuss!

[Diogenes]

Rogue your post seems rather confused. Were you actually responding to what I was actually saying?

Ok? Not relevant to anything I said as far as I can see.

I don't understand what point you think you are making here. That publishers blurb says:

Kathryn Ringrose uses the modern concept of gender as a social construct to identify eunuchs as a distinct gender

Eunuchs were a 3rd gender. It's not exactly subtle if you look at the historical texts.

The table of contents includes a chapter on social reproduction, Marxist confirmed.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

There hardly would have been a "need" to cover paintings and statues if they weren't exposing anything

So why have so many paintings of the Christ child not been duly amended?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

The table of contents includes a chapter on social reproduction, Marxist confirmed.

How to judge a text by its contents list. Where does Ringrose mention Marxism?

[CivilDiscourse]

Rogue your post seems rather confused. Were you actually responding to what I was actually saying?

Ok? Not relevant to anything I said as far as I can see.

I don't understand what point you think you are making here. That publishers blurb says:

Kathryn Ringrose uses the modern concept of gender as a social construct to identify eunuchs as a distinct gender

Eunuchs were a 3rd gender. It's not exactly subtle if you look at the historical texts.

True, but the history of castrating slaves, so that they would be safe around women they served.....means it was an entirely artificial gender... Not exactly a "born this way" issue.

[Mountain Man]

I am simply noting your rather prudish attitude towards nudity.

Only in your twisted little mind is modesty and common decency considered "prudish" behavior.

[rogue06]

Rogue your post seems rather confused. Were you actually responding to what I was actually saying?

Ok? Not relevant to anything I said as far as I can see.

Maybe if I type slower you can follow along?

You were the one equating castration with transgenderism when you posted "that it amusingly links to modern transgenderism in the sense of cutting off of the genitalia."

I pointed out the error in your thinking.

Understand now, or do I need to resort to monosyllabic words and try again?

I don't understand what point you think you are making here. That publishers blurb says:

Kathryn Ringrose uses the modern concept of gender as a social construct to identify eunuchs as a distinct gender

Eunuchs were a 3rd gender. It's not exactly subtle if you look at the historical texts.

I'm talking about what she has said and written not how the publisher decided to try to promote her work.

[rogue06]

So why have so many paintings of the Christ child not been duly amended?

That would depend on who was in control of them now wouldn't it?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Only in your twisted little mind is modesty and common decency considered "prudish" behavior.

To quote a line.

"If God had meant for us to be naked, we'd have been born that way."

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

That would depend on who was in control of them now wouldn't it?

The fact is that these images and paintings were commissioned and displayed either for private contemplation or in churches, to wit the sixth century mosaic in Ravenna.

And it does seem [on these boards] that particularly depictions of adult male genitalia cause so many feathers to be ruffled.

[Mountain Man]

To quote a line.

"If God had meant for us to be naked, we'd have been born that way."

If you had any familiarity with the Bible, you would know that nudity became a source of shame when sin entered the world, and that modesty then became a virtue.

[Bill the Cat]

Prudery for some seems to know no bounds.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65071989

A principal of a Florida school has been forced to resign after a parent complained that sixth-grade students were exposed to pornography.

The complaint arose from a Renaissance art lesson where students were shown Michelangelo's statue of David.

The iconic statue is one of the most famous in Western history.

But one parent complained the material was pornographic and two others said they wanted to know about the class before it was taught.

The 5.17m (17ft) statue depicts an entirely naked David, the Biblical figure who kills the giant Goliath.

The lesson, given to 11 and 12-year-olds, also included references to Michelangelo's "Creation of Adam" painting and Botticelli's "Birth of Venus".

Principal Hope Carrasquilla of Tallahassee Classical School said she resigned after she was given an ultimatum by the school board to resign or be fired.

Local media reported that Ms Carrasquilla did not know the reason she was asked to resign, but believed it was related to the complaints over the lesson.

They also said Ms Carrasquilla had been principal for less than one year.

In an interview with US outlet Slate, the chair of the school's board, Barney Bishop III, said that last year the principal sent a notice to parents warning them that students were going to see Michelangelo's David - but that this wasn't done this year. He called it an "egregious mistake" and said that "parents are entitled to know anytime their child is being taught a controversial topic and picture".

"We're not going to show the full statue of David to kindergartners. We're not going to show him to second graders. Showing the entire statue of David is appropriate at some age. We're going to figure out when that is," Mr Bishop said.

On Thursday, Florida's governor, Ron DeSantis, moved to expand a law that banned public schools from teaching sexual education and gender identity.

Teachers who violate the law face being suspended or losing their teaching licences.

The David was completed by Michelangelo between 1501 and 1504. It was instantly hailed as a masterpiece, with Renaissance artist Giorgio Vasari saying the David "surpassed" any statue that had ever existed before.

Queen Victoria gifted a copy of the David to the South Kensington museum - later the V&A - in 1857. When she first saw the cast, she was apparently so shocked by the nudity that a fig leaf was commissioned to cover up the genitalia.

The V&A's website says that the leaf was kept "in readiness for any royal visits, when it was hung on the figure using two strategically placed hooks."

Irrespective of Victoria's apparent shock at male full frontal nudity even depicted in marble, I am left wondering if the child[ren] of the complainant have never seen either their own or their siblings' naked bodies.

I think the parents were right. Regardless of your lack of morals when it comes to other people's children and what they deem appropriate for their own kids.

[CivilDiscourse]

Only in your twisted little mind is modesty and common decency considered "prudish" behavior.

Remember, Hypatia_Alexandria has acted as a child rape apologist and claimed that boys can't be raped. This pretty much tells you all you need to know about her level of morality. It's like arguing the morality of causing pain to a serial killer who claims what they did was right.

[rogue06]

The fact is that these images and paintings were commissioned and displayed either for private contemplation or in churches, to wit the sixth century mosaic in Ravenna.

And it does seem [on these boards] that particularly depictions of adult male genitalia cause so many feathers to be ruffled.

Again, it depends on who was in control of the painting and sculptures. If they were controlled by someone who was offended or thought them improper, they would stand a much higher chance of being covered than if they were controlled by someone not overly concerned with nudity.

Pretty obvious isn't it?

[Gondwanaland]

True, but the history of castrating slaves, so that they would be safe around women they served.....means it was an entirely artificial gender... Not exactly a "born this way" issue.

Not to mention it has litearlly nothing to do with transgenderism. After all we don't see transgenders performing 'gender operations' in order to 'become' some abstract gender. They do it to 'become' one of the gender binary (male or female). The entire idea of a 'third gender' isn't even compatible with current transgenderism.

[Gondwanaland]

How to judge a text by its contents list. Where does Ringrose mention Marxism?

Our resident 'historian' is apparently unaware that the concept of 'social reproduction' is a creation of Marx in Das Kapital, expanded on later by his followers/Marxists