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When does Renaissance sculpture become "pornography"? Discuss!

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    Whenever the topics of nudity, the human body, and/or sex are raised you have a tendency to make comments pertaining to live sex ed lessons, various perverse practices, and [often] eunuchs.


    I think you're intelligent enough to see I pushing "age appropriateness" to a extreme and I think you're intelligent not to respond however you have yet to say that sex ed should not include practical demonstrations or practice. Presumably, if you would or wished to appear that you would object to such lessons, you would object in your replies. You choose deflection instead of objecting.


    Yu have not followed the alleged behaviour of Origen have you?.

    The historicity of Origen's self-castration is disputed, as you would say, nor is it relevant.


    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post



    How to judge a text by its contents list. Where does Ringrose mention Marxism?
    I'm so glad you took that bait. I take it then that you believe that Christianity only consists of the red-letters and that the rest is a different religion. "Social reproduction" was developed by Pierre Bourdieu and was influenced by Marx. There's also the Marxist art historian and socialist Arnold Hauser. It's quite easy to comprehend that the influence of Marx and the lens of Marxism extends beyond the holy writ of Marx. It's intentional and ideologically driven diversion to suggest otherwise. Basically:

    Last edited by Diogenes; 03-27-2023, 08:39 AM.
    P1) If , then I win.

    P2)

    C) I win.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Diogenes View Post



      I think you're intelligent enough to see I pushing "age appropriateness" to a extreme and I think you're intelligent not to respond however you have yet to say that sex ed should not include practical demonstrations or practice.
      I do not see the need for practical live demonstrations. Sex ed is not simply about coitus and how to do it.


      Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
      The historicity of Origen's self-castration is disputed, as you would say, nor is it relevant.
      Hence my use of the word "alleged".


      Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

      I'm so glad you took that bait. I take it then that you believe that Christianity only consists of the red-letters and that the rest is a different religion.
      So you were merely trolling? Well at least you admitted it.

      Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
      "Social reproduction" was developed by Pierre Bourdieu and was influenced by Marx. There's also the Marxist art historian and socialist Arnold Hauser. It's quite easy to comprehend that the influence of Marx and the lens of Marxism extends beyond the holy writ of Marx. It's intentional and ideologically driven diversion to suggest otherwise. Basically:
      Which has nothing to do with your comment [as a troll or not] on Ringrose's work that you have not read.


      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        I do not see the need for practical live demonstrations. Sex ed is not simply about coitus and how to do it.
        At least now you state you do not see such a need.


        So you were merely trolling? Well at least you admitted it.

        It's a common diversion by people to say "tHaT's nOt mArXiSm". It's more like:





        Which has nothing to do with your comment [as a troll or not] on Ringrose's work that you have not read.

        The entire point of "tHaT's nOt mArXiSm" is tp divert from the fact people using a Marxist lens. Accurately picking up on jargon and concepts contemporary Marxist employ is a skill that should be learned. I should thank Start for linking the book so that I could see the amaryllis included "social reproduction". The individual who developed "social reproduction is placed within critical sociology which is part of the Frankfurt school.
        P1) If , then I win.

        P2)

        C) I win.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

          At least now you state you do not see such a need.
          As I wrote sex ed in schools is not simply concerned with coitus and how to do it.





          Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
          It's a common diversion by people to say "tHaT's nOt mArXiSm". It's more like:







          The entire point of "tHaT's nOt mArXiSm" is tp divert from the fact people using a Marxist lens. Accurately picking up on jargon and concepts contemporary Marxist employ is a skill that should be learned. I should thank Start for linking the book so that I could see the amaryllis included "social reproduction". The individual who developed "social reproduction is placed within critical sociology which is part of the Frankfurt school.
          All rather irrelevant given you have not read Ringrose's text.

          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Should classic children's books get banned like six Dr. Seuss books[1] after claims of "racist and hurtful" imagery?




            1. the publisher will no longer publish them, resulting in several school systems banning them (starting in Virginia IIRC), libraries removing them, old Joe striking them from 2021 Read Across America Day[1]and several bookstores removed them from sale. Ebay even went so far as to cancel even already completed orders -- IIRC, me brudder, Cow Poke, can tell you about that.





            1. The prodder of bovines will be so proud -- a footnote in a footnote! In any case, that day is intimately associated with Dr. Seuss -- it even takes place on his birthday.
            Looks like this is going to be ignored and avoided.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
              All rather irrelevant given you have not read Ringrose's text.

              The chapter title is sufficient to understand she is employing a critical theorist lens. It's also noted you have focused on the non-thread topic of diverting from the usage of a critical theorist lens in a specific book and have chosen to ignore more germane comments.

              Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

              Because such nudity was taken within the context of heroic nudity and within a context of Humanism. I don't expect some random parent to understand those topics. I doubt sixth graders would understand heroic nudity either so the significance of nudity in classical or Renaissance would be lost and would be futile educationally. Infant nudity would be different but even nude depictions of the Christ Child, especially without a halo, would fall within Humanism as it focuses on Christ's humanity and detracts from His divinity. I doubt sixth graders could appreciate the ideology behind these works, much less their parents.
              P1) If , then I win.

              P2)

              C) I win.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Looks like this is going to be ignored and avoided.
                By whom? I replied to this post of yours.
                "It ain't necessarily so
                The things that you're liable
                To read in the Bible
                It ain't necessarily so
                ."

                Sportin' Life
                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Diogenes View Post


                  The chapter title is sufficient to understand she is employing a critical theorist lens. It's also noted you have focused on the non-thread topic of diverting from the usage of a critical theorist lens in a specific book and have chosen to ignore more germane comments.


                  Another contributor was, I think, correct; you are a flake.

                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                    Another contributor was, I think, correct; you are a flake.
                    So instead of commenting on a post germane to your own thread or accept the obvious nature of chapter titles as to their informative telos, you're just going to ad hom, that checks out.
                    P1) If , then I win.

                    P2)

                    C) I win.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                      By whom? I replied to this post of yours.
                      My apologies. I missed it.


                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      Not in my opinion. Nor do I think the works of Roald Dahl need redacting as has recently been reported.

                      Many years ago the Enid Blyton Noddy books were expurgated to remove the "wicked Golliwogs" [can I type that word?] and likewise W E Johns Biggles books had some very offensive language removed

                      Should those works have been changed? I remain of the opinion they should not. I have the same view of Dr Bowdler's Shakespeare "reworkings".

                      Being decidedly cynical one might opine that redacted/reworked versions of well known texts are nothing but a way for publishers to make more money.

                      Indeed as public sensibilities [or perceived public sensibilities] change publishers can rework the same text over and over again to reflect those changing attitudes. As Private Eye would note "Triples all round"

                      Dahl is just the most recent example in this trend that both sides seem all too eager to engage in. What's next, do we remove the mention of suicide in Romeo and Juliet? Ban the Merchant of Venice for anti-Semitism. And you'll note that in Dahl's case it wasn't any kids who were complaining. Even Dahl's biographer indicates these changes were driven by adult woke scolds.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        This is a Classical school so it should be no surprise that such things are a focus. Perhaps the offending parents should ask themselves why they chose such a school. (The school has been advised by Hillsdale College, hardly an organization that would be sympathetic to the sexual revolution). While I am sympathetic to the idea of parents needing to be involved/informed, the usage of words like "pornography" is way off base here. Some atheists have accused Ezekiel 23:20 of being "pornographic" as well, and we just need to get away from the idea that anything that mentions or depicts penises or sexuality is automatically erotic.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          He should feel lucky his just got a fig leaf and not a snip-snip like most of the statues in the Vatican did.

                          Perhaps they should use that as their motto, and go into the transgender operations healthcare market? "The Vatican: The biggest performers of bottom surgeries since 1857"
                          Okay, that's actually pretty funny.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            You were the one equating castration with transgenderism when you posted "that it amusingly links to modern transgenderism in the sense of cutting off of the genitalia."

                            I pointed out the error in your thinking.

                            Understand now, or do I need to resort to monosyllabic words and try again?
                            There was no error in my thinking, just in yours.

                            Some male to female transgender people in the present day undergo an operation to have their genitals removed. The Vatican chopped off the genitals of most of their male statues.

                            That's true, it's what I referenced, and I didn't conclude anything further, just stated the observation of those facts for the purposes of making a joke. Cerebrum got the joke, he though it was funny. If you think there's an error in what I said, it's in your mind.

                            I'm talking about what she has said and written not how the publisher decided to try to promote her work.
                            She does get critiqued for academic reviewers for not being very consistent through her book. They explicitly point to the quote you gave as contradicting the main thesis of her book. The overall thesis of her book from start to finish is that Eunuchs were part of a 3rd gender in Byzantine society. You could argue she makes a bad case, you could argue she contradicts herself in the book, or you could even randomly and apropos of nothing declare that she's totally a marxist like weirdly obsesssed Diogenes does. But arguing that her book says the opposite to its main thesis based on one out of context quote? No. It's just you being outright wrong. I suggest you cross it off your list of "Rogue's out of context citations" that you seem to have stashed somewhere.
                            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              You could argue she makes a bad case, you could argue she contradicts herself in the book, or you could even randomly and apropos of nothing declare that she's totally a marxist like weirdly obsesssed Diogenes does.

                              Identifying ideological bias is always apropos. Currently the prevailing counter to the parental protest is that the parent is a repressed prig. Hypatia couldn't even be bother defending the pedagogical merit of heroic nudity in regard to sixth graders yet I'm the sex obsessed one. Her protest of "prudery bad" is as moronic as the parental protest of "nudity bad". At least you're not denying the obvious that author is employing critical (i.e. Marxist) sociology, that's a step up. You're just ad homming me as "weirdly obsessed".
                              P1) If , then I win.

                              P2)

                              C) I win.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
                                Identifying ideological bias is always apropos.
                                No.

                                If Rogue misquotes a book, you randomly chiming in with your assessment of the level of marxism of the author has zero relevance, and just shows obsessive behavior on your part.

                                Currently the prevailing counter to the parental protest is that the parent is a repressed prig.
                                Seems self-evidently true. But I haven't followed the discussion.

                                At least you're not denying the obvious that author is employing critical (i.e. Marxist) sociology
                                I'm neither confirming or denying it because I'm not in any position to assess its truth value and not interested in doing so.
                                "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                                "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                                "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                                Comment

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