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When does Renaissance sculpture become "pornography"? Discuss!

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  • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    Not particularly. Parents are free to teach their children whatever religion they wish.

    Now if that religious practice involves beating or torturing or sacrificing a child, that would be abuse.
    You concentrate on extremes of physical abuse and ignore psychological or emotional abuse [as did Bill the Cat].

    Both psychological and emotional abuse can be equally destructive.
    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

      You concentrate on extremes of physical abuse and ignore psychological or emotional abuse [as did Bill the Cat].

      Both psychological and emotional abuse can be equally destructive.
      Let me guess, teaching a child about Christianity is abuse but pumping a 13 year old chemicals or cutting off healthy tissue to maintain a delusion isn't abuse. Of course, let's not forget gratuitous nudity.
      P1) If , then I win.

      P2)

      C) I win.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        As I noted. Although the film of Eco's book, enjoyable although it undoubtedly is, barely touches the complexity of the book.
        The movie inspired me to read the book. There are probably only a small hand full of movies (none that I can think of at the moment) where the book that inspired it wasn't better.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • Just a reminder that the left is merrily out there altering books to make them "less offensive" -- whether it be Dr. Seuss or Roald Dahls works, Ian Fleming's James Bond stories, and now Gone With the Wind will be sold with an attached warning label.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

            Let me guess, teaching a child about Christianity is abuse but pumping a 13 year old chemicals or cutting off healthy tissue to maintain a delusion isn't abuse. Of course, let's not forget gratuitous nudity.
            You can take your comments to you own thread.
            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              The movie inspired me to read the book.
              It is a wonderful work, isn't it?

              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              There are probably only a small hand full of movies (none that I can think of at the moment) where the book that inspired it wasn't better.
              Quite.
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                You can take your comments to you own thread.
                Are you formally banning me from this thread because your objections to the parent are just as simplistic than the parent's objections? Are you formally banning me from this thread because you don't consider it abusive to pump children full of drugs or cut off healthy tissue to maintain a delusion yet you likely consider teaching a child Christianity is abusive? Are you formally banning me from this thread because you don't like it when someone else follows you through the door you opened?
                Last edited by Diogenes; 04-02-2023, 08:35 AM.
                P1) If , then I win.

                P2)

                C) I win.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                  Are your formally banning me from this thread because your objections to the parent are just as simplistic than the parent's objections? Are you formally banning me from this thread because you don't consider it abusive to pump children full of drugs or cut off healthy tissue to maintain a delusion yet you likely consider teaching a child Christianity is abusive? Are you formally banning me from this thread because you don't like it when someone else follows you through the door you opened?
                  I am not banning you I am offering you a suggestion given that medication and surgery for minors with regard to "gender issues" is not the topic of this thread; and that furthermore you have a thread on the Health Science board pertaining to that topic.

                  If no one is replying to your own thread, that is unfortunate for you.

                  ETA However, I have noted that my comments on emotional and psychological abuse have been inferred by you to pertain to

                  teaching a child about Christianity is abuse


                  Which again, is an interesting mental leap.
                  Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 04-02-2023, 09:08 AM.
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                    I am not banning you I am offering you a suggestion given that medication and surgery for minors with regard to "gender issues" is not the topic of this thread;

                    You are the one who opened the topic of abuse, not me.


                    and that furthermore you have a thread on the Health Science board pertaining to that topic.

                    If no one is replying to your own thread, that is unfortunate for you.

                    Which is a thread regarding data only, as noted in the OP.



                    ETA However, I have noted that my comments on emotional and psychological abuse have been inferred by you to pertain to

                    teaching a child about Christianity is abuse


                    Which again, is an interesting mental leap.
                    Perhaps you should be reminded that you introduced the following:


                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    You would need to define "abuse".

                    Given your oft expressed antipathy towards various aspects of religious beliefs [particularly within Christianity] you might consider some of the more "rigid" or fundamentalist Christian upbringings to be abusive.

                    It's strange you protest when people follow you through doors you open.
                    P1) If , then I win.

                    P2)

                    C) I win.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      Why? Because I do not share your notion that the naked human body is intrinsically "vulgar" or lewd?
                      Oh that's only one straw on the camel's back...

                      That is an answer one would expect from a petulant seven year old.
                      More like the parent of one who keeps hearing "why???" whined over and over again...

                      What is interesting however, is that you made the mental jump from eleven and twelve year olds being shown a photograph of Michelangelo's David [or seeing other naked statuary along with paintings of naked human figures,excepting presumably the Christ-child] and you have compared all that with a pornographic film and film adaptions of a rather tedious novel, which I suspect give far more emphasis to the sex scenes than does the original work.
                      Well whoopie for you...

                      That suggests that you [like so many of your persuasion] automatically associate any nudity with sex.
                      Pretty much.

                      Would you consider it lewd or perverted to permit young children to run around their garden naked on a warm summer day?

                      Do you consider those [including families] who frequent a naturist or [over here FKK] resort or beach, or who [again over here] sunbathe nude in designated sections of public parks to be perverts?
                      Pretty much... yes. But again, those parents are free to allow whatever they will.

                      How do you feel about the risk of adult nudity that may be found in communal changing and bathing facilities? Are these all perverted because adults may risk seeing one another in a nude or semi nude state? Or is single sex adult-only nudity less perverted in your opinion?
                      Again, the topic is children seeing strangers naked. Not adults seeing other adults nude.
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      - Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post


                        You are the one who opened the topic of abuse, not me.
                        I did not open it either.


                        Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                        Unless theer is an extreme situation (such as abuse or medical mistreratment), the parents are and should be the ones to make the decisions about the upbringing of their children.


                        I merely noted that the term would need to be defined. So far the only abuse that has been considered is physical. Hence my points concerning psychological and emotional abuse.

                        Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
                        Which is a thread regarding data only, as noted in the OP.
                        That is of no concern to me

                        Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                        It's strange you protest when people follow you through doors you open.
                        I am simply suggesting that as you have a thread on the topic you keep your comments on that topic to your own thread.

                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                          Oh that's only one straw on the camel's back...
                          On what other issues am I a pervert, a reprobate, etc?


                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                          More like the parent of one who keeps hearing "why???" whined over and over again..
                          A parent should always provide an honest answer that is age appropriate. The use of "because it is" indicates an excuse premised on the inability to answer the question which suggests poor parenting skills [and/or lack of general knowledge]

                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                          Well whoopie for you...
                          Merely noting your peculiar fixation with sex.

                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                          Pretty much.
                          Yet many people do not. That is peculiar to you and others who share your [for want of a better phrase] hang-ups about nudity, possibly premised on feelings of guilt and shame that were acquired in youth.

                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                          Pretty much... yes. But again, those parents are free to allow whatever they will.
                          Why should children running about their garden naked be deemed perverted?

                          Or is what is deemed perverted [like beauty] in the eye of the beholder?


                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                          Again, the topic is children seeing strangers naked. Not adults seeing other adults nude.
                          So you think that if a child sees an adult who is a stranger to them naked that child might be damaged in some way? Pending context on what evidence?

                          Or it merely adult genitalia that are the real issue?

                          Furthermore, what about children seeing their parents naked? Do you consider that to be perverted? if your five year old saw you walking naked from the shower to your bedroom would that be a cause for shame and embarrassment?

                          Would you consider a young child sharing a bath or shower with their parent be an act of perversion?

                          Or what about young siblings [under 8] of the opposite sex sharing a bath? Is that perverted? Would a four year old seeing a six year old's penis/vagina be traumatised in some way?

                          Yet you do not appear to have issues with adult strangers viewing one another naked. What is the difference? Genitalia are genitalia albeit at different stages of development and [with age] additional body hair.
                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            I did not open it either.




                            I merely noted that the term would need to be defined. So far the only abuse that has been considered is physical. Hence my points concerning psychological and emotional abuse.

                            Bill the cat was the first to use the word in response to this:


                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post


                            Do you consider that parents should always be the arbiters concerning everything they deem "appropriate for their own kids"? I would suggest that might be a rather dangerous policy given what some parents believe and do.

                            Abuse would be something "some parents believe and do" that would be the inferred result of the "dangerous policy" of parents always being the arbiters concerning everything they deem appropriate for their own kids.




                            I am simply suggesting that as you have a thread on the topic you keep your comments on that topic to your own thread.

                            The topic of abuse is not topical to that thread and the topic of abuse has become a topic of this thread as you seem extremely determined to undermine the role of the parents. Apparently you think it abusive not to expose sixth graders to gratuitous nudity in art.
                            P1) If , then I win.

                            P2)

                            C) I win.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                              Bill the cat was the first to use the word in response to this:
                              Thank you for providing further evidence that I did not open the topic of abuse. I simply posed a question concerning what BtC understood by "matters of abuse", which he declined to define.

                              Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
                              Abuse would be something "some parents believe and do" that would be the inferred result of the "dangerous policy" of parents always being the arbiters concerning everything they deem appropriate for their own kids.
                              Given what some parents do to their children would you not agree that parents should not always be the sole arbiters concerning everything they deem appropriate for their children? That would also apply ti over-arching parental control with regard to your own concerns [as noted in your thread].

                              Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                              The topic of abuse is not topical to that thread and the topic of abuse has become a topic of this thread as you seem extremely determined to undermine the role of the parents. Apparently you think it abusive not to expose sixth graders to gratuitous nudity in art.
                              From your remark you would appear to consider that showing children of eleven and twelve years photographs of certain art works is a form of abuse as these images [in your mind] are merely "gratuitous nudity".

                              Again, interesting language choices.

                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                                You concentrate on extremes of physical abuse and ignore psychological or emotional abuse [as did Bill the Cat].

                                Both psychological and emotional abuse can be equally destructive.
                                Psychological abuse or emotional abuse is much harder to quantify or define, and much easier to use maliciously to bring down on parents who have 'unpopular' religious ideals.

                                Comment

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