Originally posted by rogue06
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When does Renaissance sculpture become "pornography"? Discuss!
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"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
"I fail to see the necessity for quoting scripture - it brings nothing to the exchange."
She then goes on to quote scripture.
And I already answered your question: Nakedness, then, became shameful because of the loss of innocence brought on by sin.
How did nakedness become shameful? Your comment suggests that nakedness always was shameful it was simply that A&E did not know it was shameful until they gained the same knowledge as the deity.
I repeat that the "sin" was disobedience. There is no mention of "innocence" in that entire chapter of Genesis. So from what textual source are you obtaining your comment that:
Nakedness, then, became shameful because of the loss of innocence brought on by sin.
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
My quotes pertained to the chapter itself not random quotes from Proverbs which tell us nothing whatsoever concerning what you deem to be "healthy feelings of guilt".
How did nakedness become shameful? Your comment suggests that nakedness always was shameful it was simply that A&E did not know it was shameful until they gained the same knowledge as the deity.
I repeat that the "sin" was disobedience. There is no mention of "innocence" in that entire chapter of Genesis. So from what textual source are you obtaining your comment that:
Nakedness, then, became shameful because of the loss of innocence brought on by sin.
And, no, I never suggested "that nakedness always was shameful". On the contrary, I very clearly said the exact opposite: "Of course nakedness was not always shameful. After finishing his act of creation, God declared everything good, [which included] the nakedness of Adam and Eve. Nakedness, then, became shameful because of the loss of innocence brought on by sin." I really don't know how to state it any more clearly.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
However, as the public was unaware one wonders why it was of concern. Interesting, although as I have never read a word of Fleming I must bow to your greater knowledge.
If you ever do decide to watch one of the movies, I suggest the earlier Sean Connery ones (Thunderball, Dr. No, From Russia With Love, Goldfinger and Casino Royale) since they are heavily based on the books. In later years they simply took a book title and the premise and then wrote entirely new stories.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostPrecisely my point. Faced with the suspicions and gossip of your neighbours, friends, church members you might find the reality a great deal harder. And of course even after exoneration there is the saying that mud sticks.
You do not offer any reason apart from paternal objections.
You cannot know that as we all have an unconscious and we all carry emotional baggage often passed to us by the attitudes given to us, and our experiences of, our formative years [i.e. pre six years old].
You would also need to define what you understand by your terms "well adjusted" and "good mother".
Interesting language.
You appear somewhat defensive re your the comment "none of you pay my bills"
You also associate any acceptance of the naked human body in art to be the mindset of those whom you consider "reprobate". And that such art is "vulgar" - the use of which word I assume you to mean - [indecent; obscene; lewd]; as opposed to something/someone ordinary or common or unrefined/coarse:
Thought so...That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostWould you, as a parent, be ok with your 8 year old sitting through a class screening of Debbie Does Dallas or Lady Chatterly's Lovers? Or would you want the authority to draw the line where you consider things decent or indecent?Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostYou cannot know that as we all have an unconscious and we all carry emotional baggage often passed to us by the attitudes given to us, and our experiences of, our formative years [i.e. pre six years old].Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
That you think the quote from Proverbs was "random" and did not pertain to the discussion at hand is your problem, not mine. It was intended to help you reason out the answer to the very simple theological question, "Why do you suppose nakedness would be considered shameful in a sinful world, but not in a sinless one?" If you find yourself unable to connect the dots, then it would seem you are not half as clever as you think you are.
And, no, I never suggested "that nakedness always was shameful". On the contrary, I very clearly said the exact opposite: "Of course nakedness was not always shameful. After finishing his act of creation, God declared everything good, [which included] the nakedness of Adam and Eve. Nakedness, then, became shameful because of the loss of innocence brought on by sin." I really don't know how to state it any more clearly.
That A&E realised they were naked after consuming the fruit indicates they acquired the same knowledge as the deity regarding nudity. So if they suddenly realised their shame, it follows that nudity/nakedness was always shameful but they did not realise that until they had gained the same knowledge as the deity."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
That's completely unrelated to anything this thread is about. I mentioned suspected abuse as an exception where the state should be able to interject in the exclusive parent/child relationship. I'll not bother running that rabbit trail any longer.
Nor do I need any.
The good thing is that it's still between me and my kids if they disagree with how much they were sheltered, and generally none of your business.
No I don't.
That's a Southern saying for "it's none of your business"
No. I consider it indecent. Adults are perfectly capable of moderating the level and quantity of indecency that they consume. Children are not. Their parents should be the ones that set those limits, and that authority should NEVER be overridden by the state. Heck, there are people who consider pornographic videos "art" and even apparently put on awards shows for the genre. Would you, as a parent, be ok with your 8 year old sitting through a class screening of Debbie Does Dallas or Lady Chatterly's Lovers? Or would you want the authority to draw the line where you consider things decent or indecent?
Thought so...
I fail to see any connection between a classic piece of Renaissance sculpture and a porn film [whose title I had to look up].
Nor can anyone view a screening of Lady Chatterley's Lover [note the singular]. It is a text which is rather laboured and somewhat dull."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
You fundies do write the oddest things.
I fail to see any connection between a classic piece of Renaissance sculpture and a porn film [whose title I had to look up].
Nor can anyone view a screening of Lady Chatterley's Lover [note the singular]. It is a text which is rather laboured and somewhat dull.
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0082640/
Again, you've yet to provide a convincing argument that the state should override the parents' wishes when it comes to exposing a child to nude imagesThat's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
Nor can anyone view a screening of Lady Chatterley's Lover [note the singular]. It is a text which is rather laboured and somewhat dull.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
Standard fare for our amoral Fraulein...
Of course you don't.
Au contraire. My early Air Force pre-Christian days educated me on this film...
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0082640/
Again, you've yet to provide a convincing argument that the state should override the parents' wishes when it comes to exposing a child to nude images
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI'm no Bond "expert" (although I've read every book and seen all but the latest movie -- which I have recorded on my DVR for a later date) which I thoroughly enjoyed.
If you ever do decide to watch one of the movies, I suggest the earlier Sean Connery ones (Thunderball, Dr. No, From Russia With Love, Goldfinger and Casino Royale) since they are heavily based on the books. In later years they simply took a book title and the premise and then wrote entirely new stories.
I do recall an interesting film I watched many years ago that starred Connery entitled Five Days One Summer. He was also very good as William of Baskerville in The Name of the Rose, and did an amusing cameo as Agamemnon in Gilliam's Time Bandits."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
This is not the first time you've alluded to this, and I can't help but think it's projection. Not everyone has an emotionally traumatic childhood."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
Standard fare for our amoral Fraulein...
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
Of course you don't.
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostAu contraire. My early Air Force pre-Christian days educated me on this film...
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostAgain, you've yet to provide a convincing argument that the state should override the parents' wishes when it comes to exposing a child to nude images
"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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