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Who Else Is Ready For The Banking Crash And Ensuing Bailouts?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
    Rich socialists are always a red flag. They are easily spotted as part of the New Class/Nomenklatura/Red Bourgeoisie. I would assume then you've never brought up a rich Christian (even if it was done by a poor interpretation).
    Socialists think more people should have more money. The whole point of Marx's work was that workers should get paid more. Jesus, by contrast, is quite anti-wealth.

    However, Bernie'a ideology necessarily advocates more and more govt oversight regardless of the context.
    Well if we are currently in a state where the market is underregulated, that seems fine.

    Thank you for agreeing Trump's deregulation had nothing to do with the bank failure in this instance and ergo Bernie is just an opportunist hack.
    Please don't misrepresent what I said.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      Losers always attack left-leaning politicians for being either too rich (thought to show they're not really leftist) or too poor (thought to show they're bad at managing money or both simultaneously. It just shows there's no 'correct' amount of money for a left-leaning politician to have and that the people attacking them for this are losers doing so in bad faith.

      Obviously Bernie is right that after 2008, a bill to deregulate banks under Trump was at face value ludicrous. I won't say that it's logically impossible for it to have been sensible legislation, but there's a huge hill to climb to demonstrate that it wasn't insane to do that.

      That does appear to have been the problem, so I'm not sure that Bernie's right to say that Trump's foolish deregulation caused this specific issue. The bank apparently had a lot of depositors when the interest rates were low, so deliberately took out long term low-interest treasury bonds in order to pay depositors some interest when everyone else was paying pretty much no interest. Now that treasury bond yields have gone way up in price, the band was sitting on those long-term low-interest bonds and it was crushing them. As usual with banking crashes, it looks like a short-term profit focus led to long term failure. I would be interested in seeing the details of why Bernie thinks the Trump deregulation was directly relevant to this instance.
      Correct, deregulation has literally zero to do with this.

      Usual braindead Bernie take.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        Socialists think more people should have more money.
        Socialists believe they should have more money. When has Bernie voted against a pay rise for pol politicians? What about pay caps?


        The whole point of Marx's work was that workers should get paid more.
        You mean the workers on whom Marx leeched?


        Jesus, by contrast, is quite anti-wealth.
        Jesus is quite clearly anti-greed especially as it interferes with one's devotion to God.


        Please don't misrepresent what I said.
        You agreed that the failure was due to the investment in bonds and the actions of the Fed devaluing those investments ergo you disagreed it was due to deregulation.
        P1) If , then I win.

        P2)

        C) I win.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

          Socialists believe they should have more money. When has Bernie voted against a pay rise for pol politicians? What about pay caps?
          Or sold one of his multiple houses and given the proceeds to, say, the poor black families who had their city centers burned to the ground by BLM terrorists a couple summers ago......

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
            Or sold one of his multiple houses and given the proceeds to, say, the poor black families who had their city centers burned to the ground by BLM terrorists a couple summers ago......
            I wonder if Bernie or Star would unironically advocate full-reserve banking just to own the bankers.
            P1) If , then I win.

            P2)

            C) I win.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
              Socialists believe they should have more money.
              If you're implying most socialists are working-class people who would thus benefit from socialist policies that help the working class, I think that's probably true. Just as most rich people advocating for tax cuts for the rich would also benefit from their own policy.

              When has Bernie voted against a pay rise for pol politicians? What about pay caps?
              I don't view this as a serious political issue, so I'm not even going to google the answer. Once we've reduced the bloated Defense budget by 90% then we can come back and talk about nickel and diming politicians' salaries.

              You mean the workers on whom Marx leeched?
              He didn't, but there's nothing inherently wrong with being supported by others. Families are supported by their income-earners, public-servants and many scientific-researchers are supported by tax-payers.

              Jesus is quite clearly anti-greed especially as it interferes with one's devotion to God.
              I don't for a second think there's any evidence that Jesus drew a line between 'greed' and 'wealth', rather the text shows the opposite.

              You agreed that the failure was due to the investment in bonds and the actions of the Fed devaluing those investments ergo you disagreed it was due to deregulation.
              I said one account I had heard was that the failure was related to the value of bonds. Another account I've heard was that it was due to deregulation. It is possible that one, neither, or both could be true. Both could be true if the regulations would have prevented those poor investments, or required the bank to hedge against such investment failures. Both could be true if the bank has lost money in multiple ways which together lead to its failure, e.g. some money lost via bad investments; other money lost due to things regulations would have stopped, thus both summing to cause its failure. I don't have a view on which of those accounts are correct, or neither, or both, because I haven't heard enough from enough sources to come to a conclusion.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                Or sold one of his multiple houses
                He's part of a blended family so I'm not sure that all the houses he's got a stake in will be fully in his name, others in his families may have an ownership interest making him not free to sell.

                And seriously... I'm about as tough as anyone gets on landlords and excess property ownership, but 3 is just not excessive. Come back when he's got a dozen and we'll have a serious discussion about it. Until then I'm not interested in your anti-socialist virtue-signalling.
                "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
                  I wonder if Bernie or Star would unironically advocate full-reserve banking just to own the bankers.
                  I don't feel I've heard enough about the pros and cons of such a policy from enough sources to have any opinion on it.

                  I do like the sound of owning the bankers: All banks should be customer co-ops or government owned. I can get behind that unironically.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    If you're implying most socialists are working-class people who would thus benefit from socialist policies that help the working class, I think that's probably true. Just as most rich people advocating for tax cuts for the rich would also benefit from their own policy.
                    I'm implying that most socialists are just peons for the New Class that inevitably occurs in socialism.



                    I don't view this as a serious political issue, so I'm not even going to google the answer. Once we've reduced the bloated Defense budget by 90% then we can come back and talk about nickel and diming politicians' salaries.

                    So the US should defund support for Ukraine?


                    He didn't, but there's nothing inherently wrong with being supported by others. Families are supported by their income-earners, public-servants and many scientific-researchers are supported by tax-payers.
                    Do tell how Marx was funded. Engles was the son of a factory owner..

                    I don't for a second think there's any evidence that Jesus drew a line between 'greed' and 'wealth', rather the text shows the opposite.
                    I'm quite sure you don't.

                    I said one account I had heard was that the failure was related to the value of bonds. Another account I've heard was that it was due to deregulation. It is possible that one, neither, or both could be true. Both could be true if the regulations would have prevented those poor investments, or required the bank to hedge against such investment failures. Both could be true if the bank has lost money in multiple ways which together lead to its failure, e.g. some money lost via bad investments; other money lost due to things regulations would have stopped, thus both summing to cause its failure. I don't have a view on which of those accounts are correct, or neither, or both, because I haven't heard enough from enough sources to come to a conclusion.
                    In regard to the bond investing, you said "That does appear to have been the problem" and then questioned why Bernie blamed Trump's deregulation. Your attempt at revisionism is noted.
                    P1) If , then I win.

                    P2)

                    C) I win.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
                      So the US should defund support for Ukraine?
                      Probably.

                      Do tell how Marx was funded. Engles was the son of a factory owner..
                      Indeed factory owner, not factory worker.
                      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        Probably.
                        In the US, you would be accused of being pro-Putin.



                        Indeed factory owner, not factory worker.
                        Marx was funded by the Engles' family's exploitation of the worlds. Marx leeched off the proletariat via patronage.
                        P1) If , then I win.

                        P2)

                        C) I win.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Now you can add Signature Bank in NY to the list of bank failures. So far, the government is just bailing out the depositors. I haven't watch a lot of media on this yet. The trend seems to be to blame incompent management.
                          "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                          "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            Losers always attack left-leaning politicians for being either too rich (thought to show they're not really leftist) or too poor (thought to show they're bad at managing money or both simultaneously. It just shows there's no 'correct' amount of money for a left-leaning politician to have and that the people attacking them for this are losers doing so in bad faith.
                            When his whole shtick is socialism and how the rich take advantage of the poor when they should be footing the bill, and he owns 3 houses, is a multi-millionaire and charges people hundreds of dollars to listen to him give a speech on how bad capitalism is, how can anyone trust anything he says? He is a rank hypocrite. He is the epitome of the very type of person he is preaching against. He is like a preacher who openly sleeps with prostitutes who goes around preaching about chastity.

                            Starlight: Well he only has three prostitutes, I don't think that's too many.
                            Last edited by Sparko; 03-13-2023, 07:54 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                              When his whole shtick is socialism and how the rich take advantage of the poor when they should be footing the bill, and he owns 3 houses, is a multi-millionaire and charges people hundreds of dollars to listen to him give a speech on how bad capitalism is, how can anyone trust anything he says? He is a rank hypocrite. He is the epitome of the very type of person he is preaching against. He is like a preacher who openly sleeps with prostitutes who goes around preaching about chastity.

                              Starlight: Well he only has three prostitutes, I don't think that's too many.
                              Yeah, Bernie sold out.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                                When his whole shtick is socialism and how the rich take advantage of the poor when they should be footing the bill, and he owns 3 houses, is a multi-millionaire and charges people hundreds of dollars to listen to him give a speech on how bad capitalism is, how can anyone trust anything he says? He is a rank hypocrite. He is the epitome of the very type of person he is preaching against. He is like a preacher who openly sleeps with prostitutes who goes around preaching about chastity.

                                Starlight: Well he only has three prostitutes, I don't think that's too many.
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                Yeah, Bernie sold out.

                                Bernie didn't sell out, he bought in. Bernie isn't a hypocrite, the correct pejorative is that he is part of the Red Bourgeoise. Socialism necessarily entails the ownership of the means of production merely becoming bureaucratic power. Being a politician or bureaucrat in a socialist/communist system is to be the same as the factory owner in capitalism.
                                P1) If , then I win.

                                P2)

                                C) I win.

                                Comment

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