Originally posted by seanD
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Why Haven't We Shot Down Spy Balloon?
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostMultiple Trump admin officials have now done interviews where they emphasized that no cases where balloons were visible to the public and generating media headlines occurred under the Trump administration. The implication is that they're not denying, but prefer not to talk about, the 3-4 Chinese balloons that impinged on US airspace during the Trump administration but which didn't attract public notice.
Christopher Miller flatly denied it. Ratcliffe also denied it and even gave reasons why he believed it didn't happen. But I'm not going to go back and look at every interview of every official since I'll just assume you're wrong because getting things wrong is just your nature.
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Originally posted by seanD View PostYou don't make a bold claim like that about the prior admin (which sounds like a political accusation) without first clarifying that the prior admin didn't know about it. The latter would be the actions of someone honestly conveying truth and not wanting to cause unnecessary confusion the likes of which we saw in the aftermath. However, this is how I would expect them to do it if they're lying because they're embarrassed about it happening during their watch and then need to revise their lie to the public as necessary.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
The bold needs further explanation in context. In the references I read they referred to the ability of previously being able to detect and tract earlier balloons. They have improved the technology.
Physically this type of balloon does not have the ability to target a path over specific military cites. It can maneuver slightly only that is the factual nature of balloons. In this case it follows the jet stream. The satellites do a much better job, everybody has many them, and they can read the numbers on airplanes and they have multiple frequencies, and that is how spy intelligence work.
It is fact that Bidden followed the advice of his military staff. As far as I know they detected them over the Aleutian Islands.
For your information.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
Balloons are not capable of 'being actively directed to fly over sensitive targets a continent away.'
How do you propose one can direct such balloons? Reference please.
You did not respond to the post.
Second, balloons can be controlled in two ways: 1) Change altitude to take advantage of different winds; and 2) Propellers or some other type of engine to change its direction. According to numerous reports, the Chinese balloon could do both, meaning that it was highly maneuverable and could go wherever the Chinese government wanted it to go, and it remained fully under their control even after the US military had supposedly disabled it.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
Biden followed the advice if the military not to shoot down the balloon over land. The military deterrmined that the balloon did not represent an intelligence threat to US military bases and facilities, and yes, disabled the electronics of the craft.
This type of balloon transported device is terribly low tech. Everyone has sophisticated satellites including the Chinese far more capable than anything transported on a balloon. Calling it a 'spy balloon' is clearly hyperbole. I can get more information on the whole earth through google maps then this WW II technology. .
Then, when they finally deigned to tell him about it, Biden ordered it shot down. The Pentagon apparently countermanded the President's order.
They put his fragility as a leader up on the world stage for all to see. That alone made the flight of the balloon well worth China's effort. They will be using our inaction as propaganda -- look, America can't even defend their airspace. Do you really think they'll help you? Remember Afghanistan. Now, don't you think that it would be smart to ally with us while you still can?
A number of the islands that we liberated in the Pacific during WW2 will no longer allow our naval vessels to dock there -- but will allow Chinese vessels to dock there now. These actions (or inactions) will only increase this trend.
As for your comment regarding Google maps... this was all about monitoring communications and the like. Not about taking pictures.
And the bit from the Pentagon about us disabling the balloon's ability to transmit by using an EMP weapon or something similar. This is questionable given that the balloon was still receiving and responding to signals causing it to change directions and altitudes. During the Cold War Russian jets used vacuum tubes which wouldn't be effected by EMPs. Something that cheap and easy could have also been used here.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
yeah.
but then they have to explain why it wasn't shot down this time. Their "it was too dangerous because of population" excuse will be shown for the lie that it is.
Biden just gave a news conference where he is now saying, "It was always the plan to shoot down the balloon as soon as it was appropriate. It was the military's call to not shoot it down over land"
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
I don't believe it really did pose "zero threat". Clearly the Chinese government did not fly it over the US with our best interests in mind. There's lots of uninhabited land in the mid-West, and our military had plenty of time to figure out the best way to shoot it down while presenting the least risk to the public. Ideally, we should have taken it out before it even got to Alaska, but it is inconceivable that the second best option was to allow the balloon to complete its mission before shooting it down.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
Weren't they still controlling where to floated over it? Wouldn't that take electronics?
I am at least hoping the military had enough sense to do something like that instead of letting it just continue to gather info.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
Balloons are not capable of 'being actively directed to fly over sensitive targets a continent away.'
How do you propose one can direct such balloons? Reference please.
You did not respond to the post.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
There was no mention of it actually using that technology, especially after it was "discovered" - they just said it appeared that it had that technology. From what I can tell it was just drifting with the jet stream, which it would do if the electronics were fried.
I am at least hoping the military had enough sense to do something like that instead of letting it just continue to gather info.
static-winter-jet-stream-example-1.jpg
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostApparently it was discovered when it was over the Aleutians so shooting it down before that point was not an option.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
There was no mention of it actually using that technology, especially after it was "discovered" - they just said it appeared that it had that technology. From what I can tell it was just drifting with the jet stream, which it would do if the electronics were fried.
I am at least hoping the military had enough sense to do something like that instead of letting it just continue to gather info.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThis was effectively a drone held aloft by a balloon. It would have no trouble being commanded from a continent away after all we can issue commands to crafts on Mars or at the furthest reaches of our solar system.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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