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Why Haven't We Shot Down Spy Balloon?

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  • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
    I tend to prefer explanations that do not assume that someone is lying, unless there is good evidence that someone is lying.
    Two words: Joe Biden.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      So, you're suggesting what --- that after being embarrassed and humiliated by their feckless response, the Biden administration ordered their minions to sort through all that data to find something - ANYTHING - to whatabout Trump?
      What I'm suggesting is what was originally suggested by tabibito here.

      "Oh look - balloon, has this happened before? Which might have prompted a search of files, with a now known signature of what to look for, to see if it happened before without anyone noticing."

      It would be a pretty obvious idea to someone whose job it is to protect our national security, in contrast to someone wanting to score political points.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        Two words: Joe Biden.
        Yes, I know. BDS.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
          I tend to prefer explanations that do not assume that someone is lying, unless there is good evidence that someone is lying. Once you start assuming that people are lying, then you have the difficulty of figuring out just who is lying.


          The previous incursions are claimed to have been comparatively brief. We also don't know whether they passed over any populated areas, or what the weather was like at the time.


          DoD background briefings are usually done without identifying the presenters. You can go back and look at lots of them on the DoD website. So the fact that they were anonymous this time doesn't really require explanation.

          And "I never heard about it" does not quite mean the same thing as "it never happened." If you hear the latter from someone, you can be pretty sure that they are claiming more than they actually know.
          I see no reason why the source that later revised the story to it wasn't discovered until after Trump left had to be anonymous, unless he was lying of course.

          I have no problem whatsoever believing the security state is full of liars. History shows this to be true. And it's even easier for them to lie I'm sure when they're not showing their face.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

            Perhaps he'll attribute it to President Harris -- by the way, did you see him stammering and bumbling about half the women in his administration are women?

            "More than half the women of my cabinet, more than half the people of my cabinet, more than half the women in my administration are women."
            With gender confusion running rampant, I can't really fault Joe for getting mixed up.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by seanD View Post

              I see no reason why the source that later revised the story to it wasn't discovered until after Trump left had to be anonymous, unless he was lying of course.

              I have no problem whatsoever believing the security state is full of liars. History shows this to be true. And it's even easier for them to lie I'm sure when they're not showing their face.
              They live in a world where lying is part of the job!
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                Let's think about this logically: do you really suppose China would have flown this balloon over multiple top secret military sites if they didn't have something to gain? If you really think that giant array suspended from the balloon was comparable to World War II technology, then you're delusional.

                As for the military assuring us that they limited the balloon's intelligence gathering capabilities, I'm not buying it since it was still clearly under China's control for the duration of its flight. You know what would have really limited its intelligence gathering capabilities? If we had shot it down before it entered US air space!
                The bold needs further explanation in context. In the references I read they referred to the ability of previously being able to detect and tract earlier balloons. They have improved the technology.

                Physically this type of balloon does not have the ability to target a path over specific military cites. It can maneuver slightly only that is the factual nature of balloons. In this case it follows the jet stream. The satellites do a much better job, everybody has many them, and they can read the numbers on airplanes and they have multiple frequencies, and that is how spy intelligence work.

                It is fact that Bidden followed the advice of his military staff. As far as I know they detected them over the Aleutian Islands.

                For your information.

                Source: https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/06/politics/military-intelligence-report-china-balloon-trump/index.html


                VanHerck added that the intelligence community after the fact was able to gather intelligence “from additional means that made us aware of those balloons that were previously approaching North America or transited North America.”

                White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan also said on Monday that past surveillance balloons were discovered at the beginning of the Biden administration because Biden directed the intelligence community “to increase both our vigilance and the assets that we were deploying to be able to detect Chinese efforts to spy against the United States.”

                “Because the intelligence community made this a priority at the direction of President Biden, we enhanced our surveillance of our territorial airspace, we enhanced our capacity to be able to detect things that the Trump administration was unable to detect,” Sullivan said.

                “And were also able to go back and look at the historical patterns. And that led us to come to understand that during the Trump administration, as you said, there were multiple instances where the surveillance balloons traversed American airspace and American territory,” he added.

                © Copyright Original Source

                Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-06-2023, 09:04 PM.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seanD View Post
                  I see no reason why the source that later revised the story to it wasn't discovered until after Trump left had to be anonymous,
                  I wouldn't call it a revision; more of an elaboration.

                  unless he was lying of course.
                  Or unless he hadn't been authorized to speak on the matter.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                    The bold needs further explanation in context. In the references I read they referred to the ability of previously being able to detect and tract earlier balloons. They have improved the technology.

                    Physically this type of balloon does not have the ability to target a path over specific military cites. It can maneuver slightly only that is the factual nature of balloons. In this case it follows the jet stream. The satellites do a much better job, everybody has many them, and they can read the numbers on airplanes and they have multiple frequencies, and that is how spy intelligence work.

                    It is fact that Bidden followed the advice of his military staff. As far as I know they detected them over the Aleutian Islands.

                    For your information.

                    Source: https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/06/politics/military-intelligence-report-china-balloon-trump/index.html


                    VanHerck added that the intelligence community after the fact was able to gather intelligence “from additional means that made us aware of those balloons that were previously approaching North America or transited North America.”

                    White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan also said on Monday that past surveillance balloons were discovered at the beginning of the Biden administration because Biden directed the intelligence community “to increase both our vigilance and the assets that we were deploying to be able to detect Chinese efforts to spy against the United States.”

                    “Because the intelligence community made this a priority at the direction of President Biden, we enhanced our surveillance of our territorial airspace, we enhanced our capacity to be able to detect things that the Trump administration was unable to detect,” Sullivan said.

                    “And were also able to go back and look at the historical patterns. And that led us to come to understand that during the Trump administration, as you said, there were multiple instances where the surveillance balloons traversed American airspace and American territory,” he added.

                    © Copyright Original Source

                    Except the Chinese were actively directing the balloon to fly over sensitive targets, meaning they retained full control of it throughout the mission. It wasn't simply being buffeted around by the breeze, so I don't buy the military's claim that they disabled it.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                      I wouldn't call it a revision; more of an elaboration.


                      Or unless he hadn't been authorized to speak on the matter.
                      It was just anonymously "elaborated" conveniently when the former intelligence officials rightly raised a stink.

                      But I know this will go nowhere because you always take the official establishment narrative and stick to it tooth and nail. I'm more interested how and why you had security clearance, since you mentioned it earlier. Just curious.
                      Last edited by seanD; 02-06-2023, 09:50 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                        Except the Chinese were actively directing the balloon to fly over sensitive targets, meaning they retained full control of it throughout the mission. It wasn't simply being buffeted around by the breeze, so I don't buy the military's claim that they disabled it.
                        Balloons are not capable of 'being actively directed to fly over sensitive targets a continent away.'

                        How do you propose one can direct such balloons? Reference please.

                        You did not respond to the post.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seanD View Post
                          It was just anonymously "elaborated" conveniently when the former intelligence officials rightly raised a stink.
                          When Trump administration officials denied knowing anything about it, reporters naturally wanted to know why that was so. The answer seems simple enough.

                          But I know this will go nowhere because you always take the official establishment narrative and stick to it tooth and nail. I'm more interested how and why you had security clearance, since you mentioned it earlier. Just curious.
                          I was working for a defense contractor that produces satellites for the government, up until about a decade ago.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                            Balloons are not capable of 'being actively directed to fly over sensitive targets a continent away.'

                            How do you propose one can direct such balloons? Reference please.

                            You did not respond to the post.
                            That balloon seems to have been equipped with a quite extensive solar array - it could easily have been used as a rudder.
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                              Balloons are not capable of 'being actively directed to fly over sensitive targets a continent away.'

                              How do you propose one can direct such balloons? Reference please.

                              You did not respond to the post.
                              It has been reported that the balloon (or more likely its payload) had propellers. With solar panels to provide power, and the ability to communicate by satellite, there is really no limit to where it can go.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                                When Trump administration officials denied knowing anything about it, reporters naturally wanted to know why that was so. The answer seems simple enough.



                                I was working for a defense contractor that produces satellites for the government, up until about a decade ago.
                                You don't make a bold claim like that about the prior admin (which sounds like a political accusation) without first clarifying that the prior admin didn't know about it. The latter would be the actions of someone honestly conveying truth and not wanting to cause unnecessary confusion the likes of which we saw in the aftermath. However, this is how I would expect them to do it if they're lying because they're embarrassed about it happening during their watch and then need to revise their lie to the public as necessary.

                                Comment

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