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MIT Professor calls for immediate suspension of COVID mRNA vaccine

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    "I don't like those findings" is not science.

    You really have no idea how politics has overtaken science.
    And "opinions" aren't unsubstantiated statements offered as fact. From opinions come ideas, and ideas are tested and might one day become breakthroughs. There is no excuse whatsoever for shouting down "opinions".

    It saddened me to read that post.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Ronson View Post
      And "opinions" aren't unsubstantiated statements offered as fact.
      Other scientists can see the same data this guy is seeing. He wasn't offering new data. Other scientists pretty consistently do not agree with this guy's take on the data.
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        Other scientists can see the same data this guy is seeing. He wasn't offering new data. Other scientists pretty consistently do not agree with this guy's take on the data.
        I was speaking generally, there is no excuse to shout down an opinion. Whether or not "other scientists" agree is irrelevant to shouting people down.

        And do not respond to this post because I don't want you to express your opinion. Don't make me shout it down.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Ronson View Post

          I expected more from you. You won't know if an opinion is backed up by data if it is shouted down.
          Yes I will. You can't shout down published peer reviewed research.

          You can, however, point out other published peer reviewed research that outweighs it.

          https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL2N2X21LM

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Stoic View Post

            Yes I will. You can't shout down published peer reviewed research.
            You said "opinions." You even highlighted "opinions."

            But as far as "shouting down opinions that are not backed up by the data," from your link ...

            Gurdasani said many large scale studies have been done showing consistent measures for vaccine associated myocarditis, as well as COVID-19 associated illness and myocarditis, which is likely to be more severe, and that the benefits of vaccines far outweigh the risks.


            The bold is not backed up by the facts. When there have been relatively scant few deaths associated with covid for people under 20 years old, it is unsubstantiated "opinion" to say the benefits of vaccines far outweigh the risks. He should be shouted down, according to Leftist ideology.

            You can, however, point out other published peer reviewed research that outweighs it.
            And that is something quite different.

            Comment


            • #21
              I suppose the covid religious here pooh-poohed the Great Barrington Declaration, too.


              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                I suppose the covid religious here pooh-poohed the Great Barrington Declaration, too.
                With the benefit of hindsight and the data gathered over the course of the pandemic, that document looks even more absurdly stupid now than it did at the time.
                "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  With the benefit of hindsight and the data gathered over the course of the pandemic, that document looks even more absurdly stupid now than it did at the time.
                  Bingo.


                  Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                    You said "opinions." You even highlighted "opinions."

                    But as far as "shouting down opinions that are not backed up by the data," from your link ...

                    Gurdasani said many large scale studies have been done showing consistent measures for vaccine associated myocarditis, as well as COVID-19 associated illness and myocarditis, which is likely to be more severe, and that the benefits of vaccines far outweigh the risks.


                    The bold is not backed up by the facts. When there have been relatively scant few deaths associated with covid for people under 20 years old, it is unsubstantiated "opinion" to say the benefits of vaccines far outweigh the risks. He should be shouted down, according to Leftist ideology.
                    If it were true that his opinion is not backed up by the facts (and I don't believe it is), then he could be shouted down. But the people who can shout him down are scientists who are familiar with the data, not laymen like you and me.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                      You said "opinions." You even highlighted "opinions."

                      But as far as "shouting down opinions that are not backed up by the data," from your link ...

                      Gurdasani said many large scale studies have been done showing consistent measures for vaccine associated myocarditis, as well as COVID-19 associated illness and myocarditis, which is likely to be more severe, and that the benefits of vaccines far outweigh the risks.


                      The bold is not backed up by the facts. When there have been relatively scant few deaths associated with covid for people under 20 years old, it is unsubstantiated "opinion" to say the benefits of vaccines far outweigh the risks. He should be shouted down, according to Leftist ideology.



                      And that is something quite different.
                      Whether or not the vaccine outweighs the risks of the disease is usually a fairly objective measure. First of all because such decisions tend to side towards a conservative assessment of the risk. If 1/10,000 unvaccinated under 20 get myocarditus from covid-19, and 1/200,000 under 20 get myocarditus from the vaccine regardless of whether they catch a mild case of covid-19, then as long as the percentage of people that will get covid-19 is greater than 5%, the risk of the vaccine is < the risk from covid-19. But typically for the vaccine to be considered worth the risk, the actual expected infection rate would be a good bit higher than a 1 or 2 to 1 break point. And that is the sort of objective measure that is producing the conclusions from the scientific community, though their analysis is likely far more complex than just the two data points I've presented. IOW, those that are saying the risk from the disease outweighs the risk of the vaccine are seeing rather large reductions in the overall risk from covid-19 to those that are vaccinated.
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                        Whether or not the vaccine outweighs the risks of the disease is usually a fairly objective measure. First of all because such decisions tend to side towards a conservative assessment of the risk. If 1/10,000 unvaccinated under 20 get myocarditus from covid-19, and 1/200,000 under 20 get myocarditus from the vaccine regardless of whether they catch a mild case of covid-19, then as long as the percentage of people that will get covid-19 is greater than 5%, the risk of the vaccine is < the risk from covid-19. But typically for the vaccine to be considered worth the risk, the actual expected infection rate would be a good bit higher than a 1 or 2 to 1 break point. And that is the sort of objective measure that is producing the conclusions from the scientific community, though their analysis is likely far more complex than just the two data points I've presented. IOW, those that are saying the risk from the disease outweighs the risk of the vaccine are seeing rather large reductions in the overall risk from covid-19 to those that are vaccinated.
                        The covid vax does not prevent people from getting covid. That lie has been debunked for quite a while now.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                          Bingo.
                          Do you realize that that declaration was just paid for by one particular libertarian think-tank? And that it was condemned even by other libertarian think tanks as not being based in science?
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                            Whether or not the vaccine outweighs the risks of the disease is usually a fairly objective measure. First of all because such decisions tend to side towards a conservative assessment of the risk. If 1/10,000 unvaccinated under 20 get myocarditus from covid-19, and 1/200,000 under 20 get myocarditus from the vaccine regardless of whether they catch a mild case of covid-19, then as long as the percentage of people that will get covid-19 is greater than 5%, the risk of the vaccine is < the risk from covid-19. But typically for the vaccine to be considered worth the risk, the actual expected infection rate would be a good bit higher than a 1 or 2 to 1 break point. And that is the sort of objective measure that is producing the conclusions from the scientific community, though their analysis is likely far more complex than just the two data points I've presented. IOW, those that are saying the risk from the disease outweighs the risk of the vaccine are seeing rather large reductions in the overall risk from covid-19 to those that are vaccinated.
                            You completely missed the age issue I was talking about. If the risk of serious illness from covid for people under 20 is about the same as the flu - or less - then the risk factors for the vaccine could easily outweigh the illness. Especially as there are still reports that people under 15 have often tested positive without any symptoms whatsoever.

                            I really don't understand this vaccine religion. I've had covid, then I was vaccinated, and then I got covid again. Natural immunity didn't work and the vaccine didn't work in preventing me from getting it. In both cases, the illness was less severe than the usual flus I've gotten, and I've been over 60 during the whole time.

                            https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm

                            chart.jpg

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                              You completely missed the age issue I was talking about. If the risk of serious illness from covid for people under 20 is about the same as the flu - or less - then the risk factors for the vaccine could easily outweigh the illness. Especially as there are still reports that people under 15 have often tested positive without any symptoms whatsoever.

                              I really don't understand this vaccine religion. I've had covid, then I was vaccinated, and then I got covid again. Natural immunity didn't work and the vaccine didn't work in preventing me from getting it. In both cases, the illness was less severe than the usual flus I've gotten, and I've been over 60 during the whole time.

                              https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm

                              chart.jpg
                              That chart is from the very earliest days of the pandemic, it charts just a little over 4000 cases. What are you trying to prove with that chart?
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                                That chart is from the very earliest days of the pandemic, it charts just a little over 4000 cases.
                                Yeah, so? That was the worst variant.

                                What are you trying to prove with that chart?
                                That people under 20 years old are barely affected by covid, and (if it happens) they will be the generation that achieves herd immunity. Any attempt to force them to get vaccinated is ill advised - for their own health and possibly for everyone else.

                                Comment

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