CRT isn't in schools.

[Diogenes]

I'm not sure what you are getting at. The oppression of Black people in this country began with slavery and continues to this day in the form of institutionalized or systemic racism. Black people - as a group, statistically - in this country are less educated, poorer, and have less opportunity because of the that history of oppression and its legacy. That is the 'cause' of the disparity in the multitudinous forms it takes. Trying to fix that is complex and often frustrating, because as a consequence of that history there are, in fact, cultural and environmental factors that are part of both the white and the black communities that help propagate that inequity generation to generation without the need for any overt influence. But that does not change the fact that its cause is hundreds of years of slavery, followed by over 100 years of oppression after slavery was abolished. And it does not change the fact that actions must be taken by those with the power, and the wealth to allow for those without the power and without the wealth to have equal access to it. And that doesn't just mean removing the overt barriers like seperate but equal or granting the right to vote. You still have to change the environment that propagates the condition.

One more interesting facts about race and wealth is that the Boston Federal Reserve showed that Caribbean black actually had a more total assets and higher net worth than Black households in Boston. Both paled in comparison to the generational wealth of Whites in Boston, but the fact that Blacks have different levels of wealth proves it's not just just White man keeping them down.

There's also a racial homework gap as the Brookings Institute has shown.

Let's not forget the so called "poverty pimps" so styled by Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams.

If Black poverty is such a travesty, should I find statistics on the salaries of Black athletes? Are they unable or unwilling to redistribute their own wealth to help the plight of others? Should we get into Clinton's crime bill?

This is all very much irrelevant, and in fact (without any sort of accusation of you personally) is the sort of argument that white supremacists use to deny the problem, or divert attention from it.

The fact that Africans sold other Africans to Europeans is relevant to the the slave trade by Europeans. Also, interestingly, the "slave" comes from the same word for "slav" but no one ever cares about the slavery of Europeans, especially by Muslims. It is no different than point out the fact that drug addicts require a drug deal and supplier.

Giving money to individuals will not solve the problem. But that doesn't mean there isn't a problem, or that a great deal of taxpayer money may yet need to be spent to rectify it.

There in lies the problem. The best way to "fix" the problem is to indenting and remove barriers not try to spend (which will just lead to inflation and debt) or fight past racism with more racism.


Edit: Let's not forget that Biden explicitly denied the blackness of Black Americans who did not vote for him .

[Cow Poke]

I'm not sure what you are getting at. The oppression of Black people in this country began with slavery and continues to this day in the form of institutionalized or systemic racism. Black people - as a group, statistically - in this country are less educated, poorer, and have less opportunity because of the that history of oppression and its legacy. That is the 'cause' of the disparity in the multitudinous forms it takes. Trying to fix that is complex and often frustrating, because as a consequence of that history there are, in fact, cultural and environmental factors that are part of both the white and the black communities that help propagate that inequity generation to generation without the need for any overt influence. But that does not change the fact that its cause is hundreds of years of slavery, followed by over 100 years of oppression after slavery was abolished. And it does not change the fact that actions must be taken by those with the power, and the wealth to allow for those without the power and without the wealth to have equal access to it. And that doesn't just mean removing the overt barriers like seperate but equal or granting the right to vote. You still have to change the environment that propagates the condition.

And the whole leftist view is to INTENSIFY the racial divide, not to bridge it. It absolutely flies in the face of MLK's "I have a dream" speech, where we focus on the content of character, not the color of skin.

[Cow Poke]

....
Let's not forget the so called "poverty pimps" so styled by Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams....

I do SO miss Walter Williams. I don't know how many times I heard his story about having acquired his degree and success without any special treatment because of his race. He would say, "I have the supreme satisfaction of knowing I have EARNED my place, it was not given to me".

Further, he would say he was so glad that all happened before all of this affirmative action stuff.

[seer]

That's ridiculous. What is true is that facts are always facts, But they most certainly can be irrelevant to a specific topic or discussion. The fact the world has always had slavery has almost no relevance as to whether or not the legacy of slavery in the US has kept black people in the US oppressed relative to whites, and certainly is irrelevant as to the morality of slavery.

How is a black man today oppressed? What can I do that he can't?

[seer]

Obviously - because that was a failed solution. So it would be wise to stop spending money on things that don't work, but at the same time, the solution will still likely cost a lot more money.

What solutions? One solution that you refuse to accept (if memory serves) is school choice. Something black communities really want.

Demographic Support for School Choice Remains Strong:
Support for school choice is broad across numerous demographic categories.
Latinos: 73%
Whites: 68%
African Americans: 67%
Millennials: 75%
Parents and grandparents: 72%
Rural/Exurban Voters: 68%
Suburban Voters: 64%
Republicans: 80%
Independents: 69%
Democrats: 56%

[Cow Poke]

How is a black man today oppressed? What can I do that he can't?

The black man is oppressed because the white man says he is - and the white man needs to keep the black man "on the plantation" cause the white man thinks the black man is too stupid or incompetent to stand up to challenges.

[Diogenes]

How is a black man today oppressed? What can I do that he can't?

As leftists will tell you, black people don't know how to get an ID or how to schedule an online COVID jab. So apparently it's not a matter of ability but rather ignorance.

[Cow Poke]

What solutions? One solution that you refuse to accept (if memory serves) is school choice. Something black communities really want.

My math ain't so good as it once were (but my gramma is EGGcellent) but, in them thar numbers you posted...

Latinos: 73%
Whites: 68%
African Americans: 67%
Millennials: 75%
Parents and grandparents: 72%
Rural/Exurban Voters: 68%
Suburban Voters: 64%
Republicans: 80%
Independents: 69%
Democrats: 56%

... it looks like not a single category is below "half".

[seer]

My math ain't so good as it once were (but my gramma is EGGcellent) but, in them thar numbers you posted...

Latinos: 73%
Whites: 68%
African Americans: 67%
Millennials: 75%
Parents and grandparents: 72%
Rural/Exurban Voters: 68%
Suburban Voters: 64%
Republicans: 80%
Independents: 69%
Democrats: 56%

... it looks like not a single category is below "half".

Correct, so why do Dems fight so hard against what the American people clearly want?

[seer]

As leftists will tell you, black people don't know how to get an ID or how to schedule an online COVID jab. So apparently it's not a matter of ability but rather ignorance.

They think that black people are children...

[Cow Poke]

Correct, so why do Dems fight so hard against what the American people clearly want?

Because they actually got the idiom "the hand that rocks the cradle rocks the world".

[Starlight]

It absolutely flies in the face of MLK's "I have a dream" speech, where we focus on the content of character, not the color of skin.

I heard a comment recently that the particular people who quote that statement most often in the present day are the same people who MLK would have most disagreed with given what else he said.

It's worth noting that a major tenet of actual university CRT theory is that well-intentioned laws that "don't see race" can inadvertently lead to racial inequalities.
e.g. lets say someone is not at all racist and is genuinely concerned about voter fraud. This person wants voter IDs to stop voter fraud. So they get a law passed that people need to use drivers licenses to identify themselves to vote. There was no racial intent in that law - it doesn't "see" race. But because it just so happens that black people tend to live downtown rather than in the suburbs, they don't need cars to commute, and so don't get drivers licenses. So what is that law's effect on different racial groups? The effect is that it disproportionately negatively affects black people's ability to exercise voting rights relative to white people.

This is a major tenet of actual university level CRT: That legal systems set up with no negative racial intent, that don't 'see race' in the slightest, can nonetheless, due to actual facts about the world, happen to have more negative effects on some racial groups than others. i.e. "Not seeing race" can sometimes lead to unfortunate and undesirable outcomes. There can be the best of intentions and no racism in the inputs, and you can still sometimes get unfortunate racial disparities in the outputs due to no ill-will but due to facts about the world. CRT says you should watch out for that, and check to see if the system is producing unintended outcomes.

That is why it's a university level law subject, because analyzing legal systems like this and looking at data about how they are performing in practice and comparing that to how they were intended to perform by the creators of those legal systems, is a complex subject. It's inherently not kindergarten stuff.

Note that this is the opposite of how the right seems to like to define CRT. This is about how unintended racial consequences can sometimes arise from systems created in the absence of racism. Whereas the right seems to think CRT makes claims like "whites are inherently bad", which:

[Diogenes]

They think that black people are children...

I would think more like the house slave that keeps the Dems comfortable and in power.

[Starlight]

Collective guilt: Critical race theory claims that individuals categorized as “White” are inherently responsible for injustice and oppression committed by white populations in the past. This concept is sometimes framed as “white guilt,” “white shame,” and “white complicity,” which are psychological manifestations of collective guilt.

CRT implodes upon itself when you go back in history and see nearly every race of man at some point enslaving other races, sometimes their very own race. This should be taught in schools.

Let me be really clear: I don't think white people are bad. I am white. I would never ever support something that said white people were in any way inherently bad. Nor do I believe in collective or racial guilt. For that reason I think certain interpretations of Christian theology of Original Sin/Guilt about us being guilty by virtue of Adam eating the apple are absurd, and I find verses like Deut 5:9 'visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation' to be morally objectionable.

Seer's list of things in page 1 has nothing to do with actual Critical Race Theory as it factually exists in academia at a university level. I think Seer's list is best understood as "a list of things that right-wingers get triggered when they hear, which they have labelled 'CRT' but which should not in any way be confused with anything previously known as CRT."

But that's potentially fine. I don't mind terms having more than one meaning, so long as we are really clear about those meanings. So I take Seer's list to be a list of 11 things that trigger right-wingers, and that right-wingers absolutely want to never-ever see schools even mention nevermind teach. Some of that list of things I would agree about, some I would disagree about, and some I would shrug. Likewise, factually, each of those 11 things has a quite different status in terms of whether it is actually being taught in schools and how much, and to what extent there is a push to teach it in schools and how much. So I don't see this as a binary thing: It's not "is CRT being taught in schools?" it's "to what extent are each of 11 different things being taught in schools?" The answer is going to be different for each one of those 11 things.

Your comment tries to attack a view I don't personally hold and don't support, so I don't feel I can tell you how a person who held such a view would defend their view against your argument.

[seer]

Whereas the right seems to think CRT makes claims like "whites are inherently bad", which:

To quote:

All whites are racist: Critical race theorists argue explicitly that “all white people are racist” and perpetuate systems of white supremacy and systemic racism. This concept is deeply related to race essentialism—whites, including small children, cannot escape from being racist.

• “All white people are racist or complicit by virtue of benefiting from privileges that are not something they can voluntarily renounce.” Barbara Applebaum, Being White, Being Good.
• “White identity is inherently racist; white people do not exist outside the system of white supremacy.” Robin DiAngelo, White Fragility.
• “According to studies, babies at two to three years old, start internalizing racist ideas, start discerning and making decisions based on racist ideas … We’re allowing our society to raise them to be racist.” Ibram Kendi on KING5 News.