The Durham Investigation failure

[Ronson]

He's not a member of the administration. Also it does seem like there was an FBI investigation of him.

They shoved his laptop into the back of a closet somewhere. There was no investigation. I'd be curious where you got that information from.

And since he is the son of the Democrat POTUS, and now we find he's had access to classified documents due to Daddy's negligence, it is very important that he be investigated with a fine-tooth comb. And prosecuted since we already know he's guilty as sin on some charges.

Well Republican James Comey did pretty much cause her to lose the election by needlessly announcing he was reopening the investigation a couple of weeks before the election (which, incidentally, I'd predicted).

The guy is an idiot. And a "showboat", as Trump described him. He pretended not to want any limelight, but went on an international book tour the first chance he got. So, as a "showboat", he grabbed a chance for headlines and helped sink Hillary's chances. Not a team player.

I wouldn't say losing the presidency is 'untouched'. It's coming out now from Pence, Biden, etc. that politicians are often a bit careless with classified documents and such run-of-the-mill carelessness doesn't appear to rise to the level of prosecution. It seems you're got to spend a year deliberately refusing to return classified documents when asked repeatedly by the government and deliberately and knowingly lying to the government saying you have Totally Returned All of them when you know you haven't, to reach the level of willful crime required to get a politician into serious trouble. Hence Trump is in serious trouble and Pence, Hillary, Biden etc aren't.

Aside from the point. The graph you supplied is misleading, like most such partisan graphs.

[Ronson]

You could say the same but a lot more about Jared Kushner's access to Trump's documents. Kushner got $2 billion from the Saudis, after the murderous Saudi leader Mohammed bin Salman bragged that Kushner gave him classified CIA information about Salman's enemies allowing him to round them up and execute them.

Kushner worked directly with the Saudis and developed a relationship with them, as well as the Israelis. Any information Kushner gave to the Saudis was sanctioned by Trump, and therefore not classified as the POTUS has the power to declassify. Sorry, nope.

I'm not saying Kushner is squeaky clean, but I seriously doubt you can compare an advisor to a POTUS to a drug-addled felon, illegally possessing guns, drugs and prostitutes, and selling US influence to foreign powers.

[Starlight]

The graph you supplied is misleading, like most such partisan graphs.

I don't think so. I think it correctly and legitimately shows that Republican administrations have consistently been criminal, in a way that Democratic administrations simply haven't. To the extent that people seem to have made arguments in this thread to the contrary, they seem to amount to not personally liking that.

There was no investigation. I'd be curious where you got that information from.

Hunter Biden: reports say FBI has enough evidence for prosecution
FBI sends Hunter Biden tax, gun purchase evidence to U.S. Attorney
Federal prosecutors weighing charges on two fronts in Hunter Biden investigation

[Gondwanaland]

Obama killed an American citizen in Yemen (16 year old Abdulrahman al-Awlaki) as Obama was Drone-Sriker in Chief, he should have been in impeached in the least. I'm not aware of anyone else on your listing intentionally ordering extrajudicial killings of American citizens.

Yes, Obama did do that and indeed should have faced consequences.

And well, so did Trump (that young man's 8 year old sister, in fact):
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/30/...ar-old-sister/

[Starlight]

Kushner worked directly with the Saudis and developed a relationship with them, as well as the Israelis. Any information Kushner gave to the Saudis was sanctioned by Trump, and therefore not classified as the POTUS has the power to declassify.

Trump declassifying documents in his mind isn't a thing. It's got to be done by a formal process so the various departments of government know a document has been declassified and can treat it accordingly.

I'm not saying Kushner is squeaky clean, but I seriously doubt you can compare an advisor to a POTUS to a drug-addled felon, illegally possessing guns, drugs and prostitutes, and selling US influence to foreign powers.

I have zero doubt that what Kushner did was 1000x worse than anything Hunter did.

At this stage we have zero evidence that Hunter ever saw any classified information. Nevermind gave some to anyone else. Kushner on the other hand...

[oxmixmudd]

What does Biden have to do with Obama ordering the extrajudicial killing of an American teenager in Yemen after his father, a US citizen, was already extrajudicially killed in a drone strike. You've yet to detail how other presidents could be accused in a similar manner, i.e. ordering the extrajudicial killing of an American citizen.

Biden doesn't have anything to do with it. I'm just not going down an Obama rabbit trail. I was being very general, Presidents order military strikes, and sometimes there is collateral damage. I don't know the details, but tracking the Biden conspiracies and the Trump conspiracies is already more than I have time for. So that's all there is to it

[Diogenes]

Yes, Obama did do that and indeed should have faced consequences.

And well, so did Trump (that young man's 8 year old sister, in fact):
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/30/...ar-old-sister/

Then they should be cell mates.

[Starlight]

I'd be really careful drawing on cases like that. As commander in chief, all presidents I know of could be accused in that manner. It is very hard to wage any military campaign without some collateral damage.

I do think Noam Chomsky makes a pretty decent argument when he argues that by the standards used in the Nuremberg trials, every post-WWII US president would get a death sentence for war crimes.

One thing I do think it's worth given Biden credit for is dialing drone-warfare down to almost zero. Obama was a massive user of drones to fairly indiscriminately kill people. Trump ramped it up even hugely more, as well as ordering the military to stop reporting the stats. Biden has dialed it right back down to near-zero as well as reinstated reporting of the number of drone strikes done.

[Gondwanaland]

Then they should be cell mates.

Glad we can agree on something

[Ronson]

I don't think so. I think it correctly and legitimately shows that Republican administrations have consistently been criminal, in a way that Democratic administrations simply haven't. To the extent that people seem to have made arguments in this thread to the contrary, they seem to amount to not personally liking that.

I gave examples on why these graphs are misleading and duplicitous. If you choose to accept them at face value, it wouldn't surprise me.

Hunter Biden: reports say FBI has enough evidence for prosecution

"according to sources familiar with the investigation"

FBI sends Hunter Biden tax, gun purchase evidence to U.S. Attorney

Dead link

Federal prosecutors weighing charges on two fronts in Hunter Biden investigation

"according to sources who spoke to CNN"

Several months later, no charges. Sounds like a lot of bunk.

[Ronson]

Trump declassifying documents in his mind isn't a thing. It's got to be done by a formal process so the various departments of government know a document has been declassified and can treat it accordingly.

Have you seen the documents? How do you know they were classified to begin with? Because a murderous Saudi prince says so?

I have zero doubt that what Kushner did was 1000x worse than anything Hunter did.

It was at the behest of the POTUS, and never hidden. You may disagree with it but there is no indication anything was illegal.

At this stage we have zero evidence that Hunter ever saw any classified information. Nevermind gave some to anyone else. Kushner on the other hand...

That's why an investigation needs to take place. Because we know he is guilty of selling influence - and now we discover he's had access to classified documents.

[Diogenes]

Glad we can agree on something

Did you think I was going to defend the first Ommpa Loompa president?

[Starlight]

Dead link

Sorry, typo in the url. Here: FBI sends Hunter Biden tax, gun purchase evidence to U.S. Attorney

Several months later, no charges

Federal investigations are generally pretty slow. I would probably expect them to eventually file charges, and then expect Joe Biden to eventually pardon his son and give a speech about how much he loves his family and how much family loss he's had in his life and how much Hunter's had a hard time of it and how much he loves his son and has tried to be there for him through difficult times, and to gain political popularity from it.

Because we know he is guilty of selling influence

No we don't.

[CivilDiscourse]

Trump declassifying documents in his mind isn't a thing. It's got to be done by a formal process so the various departments of government know a document has been declassified and can treat it accordingly.

That's not true. The president can declassify through pretty much any process he wants. It's not the formal process that declassifies the information, the formal process is the record keeping of the decision. The problem is, without the formal process, the evidence is lacking that it was declassified. If the president decides to give a speech, and in that speech discloses classified information, that information is no longer classified, though the agencies will be in chaos as they try to figure out what documents are actually still classified and what's not because it's not what the president said in his speech. (again that's where the formal process helps)

[Gondwanaland]

Did you think I was going to defend the first Ommpa Loompa president?

I couldn't be sure. You seem all over the place to me.