I doubt that anyone is actually surprised

[rogue06]

Islam does not preach forcible conversion. That Muslims have forcibly converted [as have Christians] is another matter.

So far from the truth that the phrase wronger than wrong springs to mind.

I cover much of this in great detail in the rather short thread Is Islam inherently violent including how the earlier peaceful verses were abrogated (nullified) by surah 9:5 (Ayat al-Sayf or the Verse of the Sword) which specifically advocates for forced conversion (also HERE)

And when the inviolable months¹ have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakāh, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allāh is Forgiving and Merciful.

As well as such things as the practice of taqqiya/idtirar (lying to non-Muslims) and jihad (claims it isn't a call to Holy War are rubbish).

If you wish to rehash any of it I would be more than happy to.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

So far from the truth that the phrase wronger than wrong springs to mind.

I cover much of this in great detail in the rather short thread Is Islam inherently violent including how the earlier peaceful verses were abrogated (nullified) by surah 9:5 (Ayat al-Sayf or the Verse of the Sword) which specifically advocates for forced conversion (also HERE)

And when the inviolable months¹ have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakāh, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allāh is Forgiving and Merciful.

As well as such things as the practice of taqqiya/idtirar (lying to non-Muslims) and jihad (claims it isn't a call to Holy War are rubbish).

If you wish to rehash any of it I would be more than happy to.

Not on this thread. However, if you wish to repost your comments, I will consider making a reply.

[Gondwanaland]

Any forced conversion to Christianity would be AGAINST the teaching of Christ and the religion of Christianity. The central tenet of the gospel is that you have to voluntarily ask God to forgive you and accept Christ. Any forced conversion would not "count" - but in Islam, it is built into the religion to use force to convert. That's what it did from the beginning, with Mohammad at the lead of the raids. Anyone NOT using force to convert to Islam would be going AGAINST the teaching of Islam/Mohammad.

And yet Christians have a long history of doing exactly that. You can declare until you're blue in the face they're not TROOOOOO Christians, but I daresay they'd say the same about you and cherrypick verses from the Bible to support them just as you would for your sect.

[Mountain Man]

So far from the truth that the phrase wronger than wrong springs to mind.

I cover much of this in great detail in the rather short thread Is Islam inherently violent including how the earlier peaceful verses were abrogated (nullified) by surah 9:5 (Ayat al-Sayf or the Verse of the Sword) which specifically advocates for forced conversion (also HERE)

And when the inviolable months¹ have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakāh, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allāh is Forgiving and Merciful.

As well as such things as the practice of taqqiya/idtirar (lying to non-Muslims) and jihad (claims it isn't a call to Holy War are rubbish).

If you wish to rehash any of it I would be more than happy to.

Not to mention the fact that the founder of Islam himself spread his religion with the tip of his sword.

In fact, Islam is not the religion of peace, it is the religion of subjugation. Peace is only achieved when all the infidels have been converted or killed.

[rogue06]

And yet Christians have a long history of doing exactly that. You can declare until you're blue in the face they're not TROOOOOO Christians, but I daresay they'd say the same about you and cherrypick verses from the Bible to support them just as you would for your sect.

Because Christians are people too, and people don't always listen and like to take short cuts.

The point is that in so doing we are acting in direct contrast to what we were told whereas if you aren't forcibly converting people to Islam you are acting in direct contrast to what they were told.

[rogue06]

Not on this thread. However, if you wish to repost your comments, I will consider making a reply.

First off it's my thread, but even so I agree that another thread would be better.

I'm going out for a few hours later on tonight and if I remember I'll start one after I get back.

[Gondwanaland]

Because Christians are people too, and people don't always listen and like to take short cuts.

The point is that in so doing we are acting in direct contrast to what we were told whereas if you aren't forcibly converting people to Islam you are acting in direct contrast to what they were told.

According to your interpretation of Jesus and the verses you have cherrypicked to follow from Bible, sure. Not according to their interpretation of Jesus and the verses they cherrypicked to follow from the Bible. That's the problem. No different than the sects of Islam who have various interpretations of their holy book.

[Gondwanaland]

Not to mention the fact that the founder of Islam himself spread his religion with the tip of his sword.

Much like most of Christianity's history.

In fact, Islam is not the religion of peace, it is the religion of subjugation. Peace is only achieved when all the infidels have been converted or killed.

You just described Christianity as well.

[One Bad Pig]

According to your interpretation of Jesus and the verses you have cherrypicked to follow from Bible, sure. Not according to their interpretation of Jesus and the verses they cherrypicked to follow from the Bible. That's the problem. No different than the sects of Islam who have various interpretations of their holy book.

Well, no, but feel free to keep talking out of your nether regions.

[Diogenes]

Those atrocities are no more representative of Islam than the atrocities perpetrated against the Rohingya represent Buddhism or the murders of abortion doctors represent Christianity.

All religions attract fanatics.

I would agree that all ideologies have there fanatics, but actions are lifted from the specific text. Islam though is much different than Christianity. Murdering abortion doctors would be just a sin as murdering the foetus in Christianity. Why you are giving cover for Muslims is strange, though given the religion of migrants to the EU, not so strange. If you would like to know what the text of the Qur'an and Hadiths say with colourful commentary, I would suggest Acts 17 Apologetics. One of the more amusing videos is metrosexuality as commanded by Allah.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I would agree that all ideologies have there fanatics, but actions are lifted from the specific text. Islam though is much different than Christianity. Murdering abortion doctors would be just a sin as murdering the foetus in Christianity. Why you are giving cover for Muslims is strange, though given the religion of migrants to the EU, not so strange. If you would like to know what the text of the Qur'an and Hadiths say with colourful commentary, I would suggest Acts 17 Apologetics. One of the more amusing videos is metrosexuality as commanded by Allah.

You ignored the atrocities against the Rohingya. Why was that? Or is the killing of Muslims less troublesome for your conscience?

The origins and early history of Islam are [dare I suggest] complicated.

[Mountain Man]

Much like most of Christianity's history.


You just described Christianity as well.

Jesus never spread Christianity with the sword, you idiot. In fact, he clearly stated the exact opposite, telling Peter that "Those who live by the sword, will die by the sword," so anybody who takes up the sword to spread Christianity is going directly against the teachings of Jesus himself.

[Diogenes]

You ignored the atrocities against the Rohingya. Why was that? Or is the killing of Muslims less troublesome for your conscience?

I'll admit I wasn't immediately familiar with the reference. Why would the killing of Muslims be less troublesome for my conscience? Did you just mention them to score atrocity points?

The origins and early history of Islam are [dare I suggest] complicated.

And bloody

[rogue06]

According to your interpretation of Jesus and the verses you have cherrypicked to follow from Bible, sure. Not according to their interpretation of Jesus and the verses they cherrypicked to follow from the Bible. That's the problem. No different than the sects of Islam who have various interpretations of their holy book.

Them by all means please show me where Jesus told his followers to forcibly convert someone that I ignored.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I'll admit I wasn't immediately familiar with the reference.

Interesting given the press coverage it received. Still perhaps you did not read/watch those outlets.

Did you just mention them to score atrocity points?

Those examples were given to illustrate that three religions that proclaim pacifism have some violent adherents.