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  • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

    Apparently you lack even the ability to click the blue "View Post" button.
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland
    Originally posted by Sparko
    So do you want to provide evidence of forced conversion or die that you keep claiming, or any writings by any Christian denomination that argues for such a thing? Or are you simply going to keep tossing out insults and making unfounded claims?
    The Roman Christian empire and its forced Christianization of countless pagan groups.

    Forced conversion of Jews in the 3rd-7th century.

    The Goa Inquisition of India in the 16th century.

    The forced conversion of the Baltics under the Teutonic Order.

    Forced conversion of Muslims in Spain in the 1500s, where Islam was outlawed and the city of Grenada became the center of torture and imprisonment for any who did not convert to Christianity. (Go look up the Moriscos).

    Forced conversion of the Saxons by Charlemange where any who refused to be baptized were subject to the death penalty, under Capitulatio departibus Saxoniae: "8. If any one of the race of the Saxons hereafter concealed among them shall have wished to hide himself unbaptized, and shall have scorned to come to baptism and shall have wished to remain a pagan, let him be punished by death."


    Are you truly this utterly ignorant of the history of your faith?


    Hell, doesn't even have to be conversion TO Christianity, we saw the forced conversion of Orthodox Serbs to Catholicism through force and murder during World War II.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      It's not an interpretation. Find me anyone besides yourself who thinks Jesus taught conversion by the point of the sword. Maybe when He said if you face opposition somewhere you should simply leave them to their own devices

      Scripture Verse: Luke 9:5

      And wherever they do not receive you, when you leave that town shake off the dust from your feet as a testimony against them

      © Copyright Original Source



      advice which was initially followed

      Scripture Verse: Acts 15:31

      But they shook off the dust from their feet against them and went to Iconium.

      © Copyright Original Source



      As I said it isn't a case of different interpretation but rather choosing to ignore what they were taught.

      Now look at the contrast as I pointed out earlier today in another thread



      Yes, your cherrypicking is indeed your interpretation. Whether you want to admit it or not. And people with the interpretations that led to hundreds of years of bloody conversion and death, use other verses to support their own interpretations. Like Jesus coming to bring not peace but a sword. Etc.. This isn't hard to grasp.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        So again... in doing so they have to directly violate Jesus' teachings. In stark contrast, not doing conversions by force would be directly violating Muhammad's teachings.
        nope he was bringing the sword, not peace, like Jesus taught See how easy that is? Yet again, your interpretation of the teachings say that it violated it. The interpretations of centuries of Christians before you were different.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

          Having someone attend a church service in order to put something in their stomach for the first time in a week, is most certainly forced pushing of your religion and attempted conversion. Not surprised to see you try to defend it (and all that talk about not following Christ's commands, guess you'll be one departing to the left who didn't know when you saw him hungry or thirsty..... etc..)
          So much for believing that people have the right to impose conditions for the help they provide. Or do you believe that the recipients are entitled to free handouts, and should not be required to do anything to earn their keep?


          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
          .
          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
          Scripture before Tradition:
          but that won't prevent others from
          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
          of the right to call yourself Christian.

          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

          Comment


          • [QUOTE=Gondwanaland;n1450364]

            The Roman Christian empire and its forced Christianization of countless pagan groups.

            Forced conversion of Jews in the 3rd-7th century.
            Christians were not even in a position to force conversions in the third century. In the early fourth century, under Diocletian, Christians suffered from the most severe persecution in Rome's history - at that time it was convert FROM Christianity or die. There were no forced conversions by Christians before Constantine's reign. Your revisionist history could use a little revision.

            The Goa Inquisition of India in the 16th century.

            The forced conversion of the Baltics under the Teutonic Order.

            Forced conversion of Muslims in Spain in the 1500s, where Islam was outlawed and the city of Grenada became the center of torture and imprisonment for any who did not convert to Christianity. (Go look up the Moriscos).

            Forced conversion of the Saxons by Charlemange where any who refused to be baptized were subject to the death penalty, under Capitulatio departibus Saxoniae: "8. If any one of the race of the Saxons hereafter concealed among them shall have wished to hide himself unbaptized, and shall have scorned to come to baptism and shall have wished to remain a pagan, let him be punished by death."


            Are you truly this utterly ignorant of the history of your faith?


            Hell, doesn't even have to be conversion TO Christianity, we saw the forced conversion of Orthodox Serbs to Catholicism through force and murder during World War II.

            The history is well known and your write-up is incomplete, though representative enough to provide an accurate picture. The trend was set in the fourth century. The people who turned aside from the teachings of [Christ and the founding apostles] established the precepts that prevailed in the churches for the next 1600 years. Perhaps that is something that should be allowed to sink in.

            And no -- not all opinions are equal, or equally valid.


            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
            .
            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
            Scripture before Tradition:
            but that won't prevent others from
            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
            of the right to call yourself Christian.

            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

              I'll take that as an admission you replied to the wrong post.
              P1) If , then I win.

              P2)

              C) I win.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                So again... in doing so they have to directly violate Jesus' teachings. In stark contrast, not doing conversions by force would be directly violating Muhammad's teachings.
                Gond apparently doesn't understand the distinction between the religion and the adherents. Apostate Christians should be glad Christianity doesn't command their death.
                P1) If , then I win.

                P2)

                C) I win.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                  So much for believing that people have the right to impose conditions for the help they provide. Or do you believe that the recipients are entitled to free handouts, and should not be required to do anything to earn their keep?

                  Sounds like you have trouble grasping the difference between someone having the right to do something, and someone having the right to call them out when they do it because doing it makes them pieces of human excrement.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by tabibito View Post


                    Christians were not even in a position to force conversions in the third century. In the early fourth century, under Diocletian, Christians suffered from the most severe persecution in Rome's history - at that time it was convert FROM Christianity or die. There were no forced conversions by Christians before Constantine's reign. Your revisionist history could use a little revision.
                    Yawn. Late Antiquity forced conversion of Jews is well documented, despite your bleating otherwise.


                    The history is well known
                    Apparently not by your boy Sparko.
                    and your write-up is incomplete, though representative enough to provide an accurate picture. The trend was set in the fourth century. The people who turned aside from the teachings of [Christ and the founding apostles] established the precepts that prevailed in the churches for the next 1600 years. Perhaps that is something that should be allowed to sink in.

                    And no -- not all opinions are equal, or equally valid.

                    Yes, we understand, you want to handwave it all away because it's not convenient for you. Sorry hun, I provided the evidence, so kindly take a long walk off a short pier if you can't handle the truth.
                    Last edited by Gondwanaland; 01-20-2023, 12:07 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                      How do you deem something "offensive"?
                      When it upsets other people.

                      Its funny watching non-Americans struggle to grasp Americanism. I would say most anyone of driving age in the US would understand the shirt.
                      So you'll be wondering about so many people complaining..... ?

                      Christians have had interpretive differences since the beginning of Christianity.
                      I know. And many of them seem to think that only they are right, yes?

                      What is the "real problem"?
                      Some nut walked in to a retail area wearing a T shirt that upsets members of about seven various religions.

                      Wearing a religious shirt would hardly constitute solicitation. Do you think he should be banned?
                      I don't know why he got chucked outy before..... proselytizing maybe? Maybe he was preaching when he got stopped...... we never did see the beginning of that meeting.
                      But the guards need retraining imo.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                        Do you have a right to not be offended?
                        I'm not offended. Not even when you call me names!

                        But you get offended at times, like when I showed verses from the NT that could mean that Jesus loved his meat and wine..... remember?
                        Oh yes! you do get offended...../.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          I suppose you might be able to find someone who managed to be offended at the shirt because of that, but most people with more than two brain cells to rub together are going to understand that the cross is only incidentally crossed, and the intent is to slash through the entire 'coexist' sign.
                          Maybe you think that people that don't think just like you have only '2 brain cells'?
                          I can imagine many different religions to have thought that T shirt to be ignorant and offensive.
                          So the idiot got confronted.

                          That's quite the logical leap you've managed there.
                          Thank you......... that's sweet of you.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                            Yawn. Late Antiquity forced conversion of Jews is well documented, despite your bleating otherwise.
                            I don't hide from the fact that churches were (and still are) responsible for heinous actions.

                            Yes, we understand, you want to handwave it all away because it's not convenient for you. Sorry hun, I provided the evidence,
                            You provided evidence from the fourth century (300+ CE) and later - and chose to disregard the fact that at times it was a two way street. The earliest part of the 4th century it was Christians being persecuted by Rome. In the first century it was Christians being driven out of Jerusalem by Jews. Your revisionist history is thoroughly shot through with partiality.


                            so kindly take a long walk off a short pier if you can't handle the truth.
                            Quite clearly you only presented the part of the truth that supports your story. Changed the dates actions which took place, providing a wholly invalid rendering of a verse of scripture to support your narrative - truth is not in evidence with any of those actions.

                            Sounds like you have trouble grasping the difference between someone having the right to do something, and someone having the right to call them out when they do it because doing it makes them pieces of human excrement.
                            So you get the right to call people out, but others don't get the right to call you out?
                            TANSTAAFL - it's kind of a thing that libertarians claim to uphold. If that group's action wasn't available to give you an excuse, you would easily find or invent something else to excuse your attitude (my bad - you already did that).


                            The people who turned aside from the teachings of [Christ and the founding apostles] established the precepts that prevailed in the churches for the next 1600 years. Perhaps that is something that should be allowed to sink in.


                            That comment wasn't directed at you - but it is amusing to see that you took umbrage.

                            Last edited by tabibito; 01-20-2023, 02:47 AM.
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                              Again, I don't have to defend an alternative interpretation. All of you are morons interpreting a wild array of writings and claiming your interpretation is the Trooo one. The utter hubris of you to think that your interpretation, out of 2000 years of people's interpretations, is the 'right one', is astounding, especially given you're just interpreting the writings of other human beings with a completely different culture and society than you exist in today.

                              I see you've run away from your protestations that Christians don't force their Christianity onto others, as expected.
                              So you're sticking with the "brain dead atheist" gambit. Fair enough.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by eider View Post

                                I'm not offended. Not even when you call me names!

                                But you get offended at times, like when I showed verses from the NT that could mean that Jesus loved his meat and wine..... remember?
                                Oh yes! you do get offended...../.
                                You didn't answer the question: You said, "I don't mind any religious badges or signs, so long as they are not offensive."

                                So I ask again, do you have a right to not be offended?
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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